Slow Roller

[HotWheelsBurban]

Alright forum, it’s a rainy, miserable day here in central Virginia. I’ve got plenty of chores to get to, but first, here is a run-down and pictures of a couple of smaller projects on the truck (so far).

The surface rust on the cab floor cleaned up well with a cup brush on my trusty angle grinder.
I also scuffed the not-rusty areas with rather fine (350 grit, perhaps?) paper on my orbital/palm sander and a light touch. (I only did this so the new paint and/or primer would take to the floor.)

With no structural issues found, I primed and top-coated the entire cab floor, hoping to arrest the rust. (You can see where the rust was in the lower left corn of the picture, under the pedals and nearest the left front cab mount. If anyone cares, I can add a close-up of that sometime.) So far (2 years and counting) the rust hasn't restarted.

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Eventually I’d like to add some damping ("sound deadening") material to the firewall, rear cab wall and door inners. I may not put the noise abating material on the floor because I don’t want to encourage the rust problem that I had to fix in the first place. Recommendations on which acoustic treatment materials are good and work well are much appreciated.

I wire brushed almost the entire frame with the bed off and inner fenders out. I’ll need to go back and address the section under the cab and some areas inside the channel of the frame after the truck can find its way to a lift under its own power. I primed the frame with the maroon-ish/brown Rust-Oleum bare metal primer (shown below). Eventually, I did topcoat the frame with semi-gloss black. I'll show that in a later post. The frame cleaned up extremely well.

I know Rust-Oleum is pretty mediocre in comparison to having a chassis e-coated, powder coated, or even epoxy primed and painted. I would have loved to have done any of those things, but it’s an $800 truck and I don’t have a great way to remove the cab from the frame. So, Rust-Oleum it is.

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Unsurprisingly, the gas tank was filled with stale, nasty…ummm…“stuff.” Luckily, gas tanks aren't too expensive and readily available. I bought a bare sender/pick-up unit and added a Walbro fuel pump that will support more than 400hp. Spoiler alert: That’s more pump than I’ll need.

(I have a spare, new-in-box fuel tank as well. PM me if you’re interested.)

I cut off the OE fuel sender fittings and installed some -6AN fittings since I didn’t know exactly where I was going with the powertrain. I figured -6 was a pretty good universal option for anything I was considering.

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Now, the topic that had generated the most buzz so far: I test-fit a couple of different engine/trans combos. One of the directions I really hoped to go was simply too difficult to make work. I’ve shared a picture (below), but I'll keep the details to a minimum since I am definitely not going this direction any longer.

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A buddy that helped with this little experiment told me that I’d have to call the truck a Jagrolet or a Chevuar, if it had worked out.

So what the heck is going on in this picture?
The engine is a final generation (1994 - 1996.5) Jaguar V12. It has a displacement of 5998cc and is commonly known as the 6.0L variant.
The transmission that Jaguar used behind this engine was a rather unique version of the 4L80e. (Earlier Jaguar V12s used the 700R4.) In the 1990s Aston Martin and Rolls Royce used the same exact variant, as did a few other boutique manufacturers. (There is one attached to this engine in this picture. Trust me.)

Also in this picture you can see the driver side "diving board" engine mount I fabbed-up, trying to make this work. I got very close. The hurdles I couldn't clear (cost effectively or in a reasonable amount of time) were the engine mounts and (likely) exhaust routing. An add-on engine cradle directly above the steering box ports, across to the passenger side and some creative headers probably would have gotten me there. Ultimately, I decided it was better to keep the truck project moving forward and find a different home for this engine.

Now, before I move on, most of you are probably thinking: "That's idiotic. Why would he even try to do that?" Totally fair assessment, and question. The best explanation that I can offer is below:

I've been messing around with the 6.0L variant of Jaguar V12 for many years. Everyone but Jaguar guys (and me - I'm not really a Jag guy) dismiss them as pure garbage. Yes, all Jaguar V12s have some issues, but the 6.0L motors were fairly well sorted out. The problematic areas that remain can be addressed rather easily with modern engine technology and components.

The distributors were always problematic, across every version of Jag V12. The last couple of years the V12s were built with distributorless ignitions which eliminated this problem. Two 6-pack coils (the same coils used in the Ford EDIS-6 system) sit in between the cylinder banks. Love or hate Ford, the EDIS family of ignition was pretty bulletproof. This engine (a 1994 originally built with a distributor) has been upgraded to distributorless system.

The ECUs/PCMs were also woefully inadequate. Jaguar did some really strange things in order to control 12 cylinders and manage emissions with very basic ECUs. With a modern aftermarket ECU (that can handle 12 cylinders) and without having to worry too much about emissions, nearly all of those demons can be addressed. If anyone is really dying to know more about this, I can go into a lot of detail, but we should probably keep it off of a Chevy truck forum!

Of course, no conversation on British cars would be complete without discussing Lucas Electronics. Yes, they suck. But all of that has been stripped off of this engine, so it's no longer an issue. Everything has been or will be replaced with modern, high-quality wire, connectors, sheathing, etc.

Another criticism heaped upon the Jaguar V12 is it's lack of power. Well, the 6.0L variants made 300-330hp with extremely flat torque curves. That's weak by contemporary standards, but that's remarkably well aligned with "high performance" engines of similar displacement in the early to mid-90s. (A 1995 Chevy 5.7L LT1 made 300hp in a Vette...) The other detail frequently cited is that the Jag V12 is huge, and heavy. Both of those assertions are true. The water pump pulley would sit less than 2-inches behind the radiator in the C1500. The engine is LONG, and yes, it is heavy. The combined engine and transmission weigh about 900lbs, depending on the level of dress. Of course, a 1995 454 weighs around 700lbs, alone. A 4L80e takes that combination well over 1000lbs. A 1995 454 also made about 250hp and under 400lb-ft. So the sad old V12 doesn't look so sad, by some comparisons. (ha-ha)

Before any of the more sensitive visitors get too worked up: Yes, we all know that mid-90s powertrains were neutered for many reasons, and that when un-corked they're capable of far greater output.

The final - and not trivial - reason I gave this a shot is because V12s sound glorious. No, the Jag V12 doesn't sound like the small-displacement, high-reving Lamborghini or Ferrari 12 cylinders, but it still sounds mighty fine with a set of pipes on it. Here's a pretty good example:

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Clearly I have an affinity for this family of engine. But why put it in a Chevy truck? Well, because everyone else swaps GM V8s into Jaguars that were built with V12s. I thought it'd be fun to reverse the process and put a Jag V12 in a GM. Some automotive irony, if you will.
To take that a bit further, it was some good old fashioned hot rodding - stuffing some parts together that were never intended to go together, just to see what would happen. There were a lot of interesting problems to solve along the way (some of which I'll touch on later, because they're still a part of the project), and the result - if I had pulled it off - would have been extremely unique. (And yes, it's fair if you want to add "...and stupid" to the last sentence.)

As I've noted several times before, this is an $800 truck. It was rusting away in a field in rural southwest Virginia before I bought it. I knew trying to stuff the Jag motor in it was unlikely to work, but I gave it a shot. The end result is that the old c1500 has lived a few more years.

To close this topic out: If anyone has a good lead on a mid-1970s Jaguar XJ12c (Jaguars short-lived attempt at a muscle-/sports-car) or Race Car
Replicas XJ13 reproduction, let me know!
- Leland Touring Car XJ12C: https://www.motorsportretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/1976-Jaguar-XJ12C-Broadspeed-10.jpg
- RCR XJ13: https://race-car-replicas.com/rcr-xj13

Alright. Time to get to some chores. I have to track down a few more pictures and then I'll post some of the other smaller projects I've pursued over the past few years.

Thanks for all the commentary, support and questions so far.

Since a GM square body truck front end, especially the 73-80 "first generation" is a little longer and roomier that the 400/OBS truck front end is...I wonder if the Jaguar V12 package you put together, would fit in one of those trucks? That would definitely be something you're not gonna see many of at a truck show!

 

[Erik the Awful]

Caddy v8?

Bingo!

I think the problem with the Jag V12 and XK motors are their weight. That big 8.2L Caddy is only 40 lbs heavier than the Jag 4.2. That V12 supposedly weighs in at 680 lbs - a full hundred pounds over a big block. They do sound glorious, though.

When I gutted the Jag, I discovered that Jaguar overbuilt everything that didn't need it, and everything that needed to be overbuilt was weak junk. Heavy and unreliable.

 

[Scooterwrench]

Caddy v8?

Good choice. 68-70 472 with later 500 heads. It would stroll pretty good and get decent fuel economy for what it is.

 

[nineno]

Here's a run down of some other smaller projects...

Along the way I’ve scored a manual transmission steering column in the junkyard. I wanted this for a few of reasons:
1 - Whether I ended up with an auto or a manual transmission, I was fairly confident I wanted a floor shift rather than the column shift. (This would have been particularly true if the Chevuar would have worked out.)

2 - The original steering column was a non-tilt column with the most basic wiper setup.

3 - I was going to re-key the doors and steering column to the same (new) keys, regardless. (Using a key in a car for any reason is bizarre enough these days. The thought of different door and ignition lock was inconceivable!)

Here’s the 1992 GMC donor truck in a local pull-a-part yard. You can see my tool bucket and the pulled column in the background.

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I have to admit, rebuilding the steering column was rather enjoyable. I found a couple of excellent references on the inter-webs. For those interested, check out:

• "Inside the GM Tilt Steering Column" by Jazzman {https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/images/d/d6/Jazzman_Steering_Rack_Rebuild.pdf}
• "Illustrated Tilt Steering Column Disassembly" by Oliver Scholz {http://www.fieros.de/en/articles/steering.html}

I used as many GM (or OE-supplier) parts, and several Standard Motor Products (SMP) parts during the rebuild. As is often the case, the aftermarket parts were marginal. Cosmetic molded plastic parts were iffy at best, so I did use a little Bondo to smooth-out the sunken areas and sanded everything to remove obvious parting lines, etc. I also repainted the entire column semi-gloss black. The results were ok. Decidedly better than how all of the parts looked from the junkyard, or out of the box in the case of the re-pop parts.

I found a rattle can color that matched closely and primed and painted the switch-gear housing and column covers. In hindsight, re-using the OE molded plastic pieces and putting half as much work into repairing them may have been a better option than the SMP parts. It would have saved a few bucks, too.

The one part I couldn’t find new, or in good shape in a junk-truck, was the key switch buzzer contact. That may be a feature that doesn’t work once the truck is operational. Are good replacement parts available, or is it just a scavenger hunt to find a decent piece in the wild?

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Oddly, it was never particularly intuitive which steering column bearing/bushing I should use at the front end of the column. Perhaps I was looking at the wrong references?

If anyone else is unsure of what bearing to use at the leading edge of the GM steering column, I used Crown Automotive 4487696K. Crown is a Jeep parts supplier, but older Jeeps used the GM tilt column for a long time. This appears to be a very high-quality part and it fit perfectly. (To be fair, it’s never been put to the test, so perhaps I’ll change my story in the future.)

Here's a pic of the Crown bearing: https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/cwa-4487696k_xl.jpg

Another small project along the way was cleaning up, priming & painting a spare parking brake mechanism. I ended up with an extra one when I acquired a pile of random interior parts, so I worked on the spare while the truck was "on holiday." (More on that in a future installment.) Rust-Oleum to the rescue, again!

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Is it perfect? Nah. But it's nice to know that in the future I won't have that rusty hunk in the left panel hiding under the dash.

I also took some time to clean up many of the pedals, trim rings, etc, that I have collected over the past few years. I masked off the areas that need to pivot and rotate, then primed and painted everything in my backyard. Again, the results seem pretty good for the cost of some spray paint (and primer), and the time to do the work.

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Some combination of these parts should end up in the truck...I think.
(Incidentally, I’ll post the spares for sale (and the other parts I’ve noted so far) once I earn enough forum-cred to post in the For Sale section.)

Another treasure that I pulled from the pull-a-part yard was a Hydroboost unit (and brake pedal, etc) from a 1994 c2500 municipal service truck, shown below. Sticking an HB brake booster in the truck was a necessity if I had stuck with the V12 because the vacuum booster simple wouldn't fit.

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Despite the decision to go with a much more conventional powertrain, I think I may stick with the Hydroboost. I'll provide more details and pictures if the HB unit makes the cut.

I also took the electronic throttle pedal out of this truck. I had no idea an early/mid-90s diesel had electronic throttle control! I used the 3-channel electronic pedal for other Jaguar V12 experiments. Anyone that's converting an OBS to electronic throttle control should pickup one of the diesel pedals and see if it could work. It's a perfect bolt-in to the three weld nuts on the firewall.

Next up: Body work and paint.

 

[nineno]

I really like the rusty metal primer frame

Right?! It's a remarkable neat color mid-way through the drying process. There's some weird iridescence to it. Unfortunately, that dissipates as it sets up/dries. I should paint something with it and then clear-coat it, just to see what it looks like.

I had a toy XJ12C back in the 70s. It was one of the first Christmas presents I remember getting. Probably 75 or so.

That all lines up with the production run and years that they were campaigned, I think. Nothing better than Christmas morning as a kid, right?
...and we're all still playing with our toy cars all these years later.

Since a GM square body truck front end, especially the 73-80 "first generation" is a little longer and roomier that the 400/OBS truck front end is...I wonder if the Jaguar V12 package you put together, would fit in one of those trucks?

The first truck I attempted to purchase for this project was a squarebody in March/April of 2020. It was a survivor that someone put up for sale in northern North Carolina. From the pictures, it appeared to be pretty clean. Someone else got it before I could nail the seller down on a time to mean, etc.
I don't know enough about the front frame geometries of those trucks, but I suspect that you're on to something with this line of thought, and that it would be a bit easier than trying to cobble something together for the OBS.

Caddy v8?

Bingo!

Doh... My bad. Cool, regardless.

When I gutted the Jag, I discovered that Jaguar overbuilt everything that didn't need it, and everything that needed to be overbuilt was weak junk.

And as for Jaguars, yes, there are some extremely strange engineering and economic decisions made.

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

Right?! It's a remarkable neat color mid-way through the drying process. There's some weird iridescence to it. Unfortunately, that dissipates as it sets up/dries. I should paint something with it and then clear-coat it, just to see what it looks like.


That all lines up with the production run and years that they were campaigned, I think. Nothing better than Christmas morning as a kid, right?
...and we're all still playing with our toy cars all these years later.


The first truck I attempted to purchase for this project was a squarebody in March/April of 2020. It was a survivor that someone put up for sale in northern North Carolina. From the pictures, it appeared to be pretty clean. Someone else got it before I could nail the seller down on a time to mean, etc.
I don't know enough about the front frame geometries of those trucks, but I suspect that you're on to something with this line of thought, and that it would be a bit easier than trying to cobble something together for the OBS.



Doh... My bad. Cool, regardless.


And as for Jaguars, yes, there are some extremely strange engineering and economic decisions made.

Not just jags, all British cars from what I've seen and heard! Our UK and Aussie/Kiwi members can prolly back that up....
I like watching the period piece BBC/PBS shows to see the older cars...but they never work on them!

 

[Sean Buick 76]

Buick 455 into Jag:

Buy Racing Parts - Competition Components Blog

 

[618 Syndicate]

Not just jags, all British cars from what I've seen and heard! Our UK and Aussie/Kiwi members can prolly back that up....
I like watching the period piece BBC/PBS shows to see the older cars...but they never work on them!

Yeah all of them were pretty poorly put together, but British Leyland's offerings were notably bad even among that crowd. I say that as a proud Brit.

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

Yeah all of them were pretty poorly put together, but British Leyland's offerings were notably bad even among that crowd. I say that as a proud Brit.

So all the cars over there, could be considered "phords"?

 

[618 Syndicate]

So all the cars over there, could be considered "phords"?

Absolutely not!