The Stupid Interior Questions Thread

[MSCustoms]

I repaired the dashboard in my K5 and had over 30 hours into it. Its ok but I would go about it differently next time. I removed high spots and covered the whole dash in epoxy and a woven mat. Most of the time into it was hand sanding and then paint.

 

[Donald Mitchell]

I have done a ton of work to my 94, along with out sourcing some stuff. I have a big gap under the cluster bezel as well as the bezel. I can't recall if it is supposed to be this way. It's driving me crazy!!
That's not right. I don't know whats happening to it . Have you hat it apart/ could be wiring on top of the steering collum or something else. I would have to take it apart and find out.

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[long_bed]

I've covered many dashes over the years.
Multiple '50's Ford & GM pick-ups. (While the dash was still in the trucks, but with the windshield removed)
Ford Skyliners, Retractables & Continentals.
Many Camaros, Mustangs & late '50's to mid '60's T-birds.
Lots British sports cars.
A couple of Porsche's (A 356C & a 911) & a Pantera, too.
At least another 20 in Corporate Jets. (Called glare shields)
Some in vinyl, most in leather. Some were factory equipped with covered dashes, many weren't.
After all that experience, I would find covering a dash in a '95+ 400 not all that intimidating, but certainly time consuming. Time that the average owner would find to be excessively expensive. Lots of fitting, patterning & stitching of multiple pieces required in order to get the vinyl/leather to fit properly to all those curves & convoluted shapes. There's a bit more to the job than just gluing down some material & wrapping it around.
There's more work in getting any bulk trimmed down when wrapping around the edges. Just as much as in the actual fabrication, if not more. Bulk causes fitment issues.
Not a job that I would say an inexperienced owner would be able to do & still get a satisfactorily finished end product.
I've considered doing the one in my '98. In leather, of course. But that's as far as that's gotten. Mere consideration! Lol! I've looked at the dash many times with that idea. Covering it would be an excersize just to demonstrate my capabilities.
But seeing as the dash is in primo condition as it is, I'm just going to keep it clean, with the idea of covering it in the back of my mind for the one-day some-day list of mods.

I really appreciate the rundown on this. I agree and think the curves could make a bit of a challenge that would make stretching vynil/leather nearly impossible to get right. I've done some vynil & tweed wrap work in the past on much smaller & less complex pieces. Repaired a few sunvisors and also helped recover some church pews once upon a time. I know that's nothing compared to this, though.

I've had an interest in getting in auto upholstery for some time and think this would be a good challenge to get started. I've learned a little bit about sewing from my wife (who is a pretty talented seamstress, capable of making her own patterns) and have picked out what I consider some inexpensive furniture-grade material, which I'm a little concerned about longevity of. However, I really don't want to jump in half-cocked or get in any hurry.

To make sure I'm not being penny wise and pound foolish--If I did the plastic repair, extra bracing, & prep work--How many hours would a competent upholsterer need to cover a piece like that?

 

[sewlow]

I really appreciate the rundown on this. I agree and think the curves could make a bit of a challenge that would make stretching vynil/leather nearly impossible to get right. I've done some vynil & tweed wrap work in the past on much smaller & less complex pieces. Repaired a few sunvisors and also helped recover some church pews once upon a time. I know that's nothing compared to this, though.

I've had an interest in getting in auto upholstery for some time and think this would be a good challenge to get started. I've learned a little bit about sewing from my wife (who is a pretty talented seamstress, capable of making her own patterns) and have picked out what I consider some inexpensive furniture-grade material, which I'm a little concerned about longevity of. However, I really don't want to jump in half-cocked or get in any hurry.

To make sure I'm not being penny wise and pound foolish--If I did the plastic repair, extra bracing, & prep work--How many hours would a competent upholsterer need to cover a piece like that?

How deep are your pockets? Lol!
There's several factors in estimating the cost of covering a dash.
...and no matter how much experience or talent the upholstery guy has, that cost will always be an 'estimate'. An educated guess. There will usually be some sort of snag that will rear it's ugly head.
That can add costs in the form of added time &/or materials.
There are no patterns for this kind of work.
I've told some customers when they ask what the finished job will look like or how much is it going to cost..."I don't know, man. I'm just making this up as I go along." KInda funny to watch their eyes bug-out & hear their wallet go twang when I say that.
Anyways...
There's the material costs. Leather or vinyl quality? There's several ranges that that falls into, but as this is a dash, there are some requirements of the material that are absolute. It must be at least automotive grade. Marine grade is better. Mold & mildew resistant. U.V. stable. So...that means materials on the upper end of the price scale.
There's not a lot of material involved. 3 yards? Even still, the difference in cost between an 'average' material (vinyl)& the high-end stuff (leather) can be significant.
*Quick note on vinyl/leather prices.*
Vinyl is sold by the linear yard. 36"x54". That can run in the $35-$50/yard range. $150.00.
Leather is sold by the square foot. 18 sq.ft. = 1 linear yard. For a dash, the leather that would meet the requirements should be in the $10-$12/sq.ft. range. (Ready?) $540-$650!
...and I haven't even starting patterning yet, let alone stitching, let alone prepping the dash surface to be glued to.
Labour time? At least three 8 hour days. One for prep & patterning. The next would be cutting, stitching & test fitting. Last would be the actual covering. 24 hours. Probably more.
The reason for that amount of time is because the finished job has to be perfect. It's what you see the most in the whole interior. Any flaws are & will always be apparent. You'll see any & every flaw everytime you drive the vehicle.
Shop rate is $65/hr. for Joe Average walking in off of the street.
Multi-repeat customers, car club & forum members get charged $50/hr.

This is the kind of quality the job has to be.
Perfect patterning. Perfect stitching.

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[AK49BWL]

@sewlow That is some beautiful work. Just curious, have you done an 88-94 GMT400 dash before? I know you said you have done GM pickups but not what specific ones... I'm also curious about a ballpark price range to have a later GMT400 60/40 bench with the fold down center console reupholstered, if you might have such an estimate

 

[MSCustoms]

@sewlow thats amazing work. I would get my dash done if it looked like that. I like the black with blue stitching

 

[long_bed]

How deep are your pockets? Lol!
There's several factors in estimating the cost of covering a dash.
...and no matter how much experience or talent the upholstery guy has, that cost will always be an 'estimate'. An educated guess. There will usually be some sort of snag that will rear it's ugly head.
That can add costs in the form of added time &/or materials.
There are no patterns for this kind of work.
I've told some customers when they ask what the finished job will look like or how much is it going to cost..."I don't know, man. I'm just making this up as I go along." KInda funny to watch their eyes bug-out & hear their wallet go twang when I say that.
Anyways...
There's the material costs. Leather or vinyl quality? There's several ranges that that falls into, but as this is a dash, there are some requirements of the material that are absolute. It must be at least automotive grade. Marine grade is better. Mold & mildew resistant. U.V. stable. So...that means materials on the upper end of the price scale.
There's not a lot of material involved. 3 yards? Even still, the difference in cost between an 'average' material (vinyl)& the high-end stuff (leather) can be significant.
*Quick note on vinyl/leather prices.*
Vinyl is sold by the linear yard. 36"x54". That can run in the $35-$50/yard range. $150.00.
Leather is sold by the square foot. 18 sq.ft. = 1 linear yard. For a dash, the leather that would meet the requirements should be in the $10-$12/sq.ft. range. (Ready?) $540-$650!
...and I haven't even starting patterning yet, let alone stitching, let alone prepping the dash surface to be glued to.
Labour time? At least three 8 hour days. One for prep & patterning. The next would be cutting, stitching & test fitting. Last would be the actual covering. 24 hours. Probably more.
The reason for that amount of time is because the finished job has to be perfect. It's what you see the most in the whole interior. Any flaws are & will always be apparent. You'll see any & every flaw everytime you drive the vehicle.
Shop rate is $65/hr. for Joe Average walking in off of the street.
Multi-repeat customers, car club & forum members get charged $50/hr.

This is the kind of quality the job has to be.
Perfect patterning. Perfect stitching.

WOW! Thank you very much for all your insight on this and for showing off your work! That is some excellent craftsmanship. I definitely see how the material prices could skyrocket quickly and I wasn't considering that before. Wouldn't want to cheap out to turn around and re-do it next year. Of course, once the dash is done up right, all seats, other panels, and trim have to match! Otherwise it'd be like wearing muck boots with a nice suit!

We started laying out some scrap pieces of vinyl last night & visualizing the layout a little bit. I also learned how it's not as simple as just stretching material over the curves with elbow grease & heat. Several pieces cut at just the right angles would be a must to get each panel laying flat & even on the surfaces. I was confident for a moment in how to pattern but when my wife started talking about the science of getting those curves right with the seam stitching & folding techniques I glazed over a bit. I may have blacked out when I looked up pricing for a decent cover stitch machine she requested to do the job. I've never seen one used for this so I think she's pulling my leg to get a new toy or talk me out of this.

I believe now that the cost of getting this done would eat up more than my entire interior budget. (That includes: I'm splurging on the seats, and also doing some insulation, used dash, new steering wheel, HVAC refresh, and some extra for any incidentals) It would also be nearly "too nice" for me to want to use for its intended purpose. I think I'm better off repairing the cracks and convincing myself the eyesore is OK or cough up the cash for a decent dash. Still might give it a shot for the learning expierience.

 

[sewlow]

@sewlow That is some beautiful work. Just curious, have you done an 88-94 GMT400 dash before? I know you said you have done GM pickups but not what specific ones... I'm also curious about a ballpark price range to have a later GMT400 60/40 bench with the fold down center console reupholstered, if you might have such an estimate

Yayyy!!! You asked the right question!
I get people asking me all the time if I can do their project. The answer is always, "Yes! Yes I can. Get outa my way. Stand back. Watch this!"
Right answer to the wrong question.
The right question they should be asking is...
"Have you ever worked on a '37 Packard before?" "...an 1899 Waverly Electric car?" "...a 1985 Pantera GT5-S?"
Up until the owners brought those projects to my shop, I had never worked on any of those before. But, by utilyzing basic A>B>C procedures, every one of those vehicles left the shop with happy-happy owners.
The type of vehicle is of no matter to me. The procedures are.
So...the answer to your RIGHT question is, No. I have never done a dash in an early 400.
They would be a lot simpler to do than a later version. Hard square designs are easier to work with than all those curves & dips that the '95+ dashes have.
But you'd still get the same answer. Damn right I could do it!

For that seat, I can't give firm prices until the materials are picked.
That is something that I will not do for a customer.
I can inform them as to what is good, better, best, and then show them the choices available from the sample books that my suppliers provide.
I will not choose colors for a customer. That is, unless they give me free reign, such as designing a complete interior for a Kustom or HotRod.
The reasoning behind that?
('Scuse the following rant!)
I had one 'customer' (re; Ultra-rich kid, spoilt brat, *******!) that picked the interior colors for his original Hemi-powered '53 Chrysler Station Wagon. (Restoration project with a color change in/out from the original)
When he showed up to inspect the finished seats & door panels, he decided he didn't like the colors THAT HE CHOSE!!!
He wanted me to re-do it all, on my time & dime. 80 hours! Expected me to pay for all the new materials, too. NOT happenin'. Why should I bite the bullet over a desicion that he made?
I don't care if the customer chooses to have his project done in red/yellow/green/purple & orange. That's their choice. If that's what they want, that's what they'll get. There is no accounting for personal taste!
Those seats sat in the corner of my shop for over 2 years. He stilled owed me the 50% balance.
When he did show up after all that time he was really really pissed that the project hadn't been re-done. Foaming at the mouth pissed. Threatened 'lawyer'! (His Dad! Who actually is/was a big-time well known pit bull of a lawyer.)
Then he figured that he was just going to take the stuff outa my shop, without paying the balance due. Give the job to someone else. Nope. That wasn't happening either.
Pay what you owe, then you can do whatever you want. Pour lighter fluid all over it & light it on fire, for all I care. It's either that, or I take a razor knife to the whole job before it leaves here. (Wouldn't be the first time I've done that!)
Seats sat in the shop for another 15 months. One day, someone I'd never met before shows up with cash & a truck & took the stuff away. End rant!

But anyways...For those seats, they'd require about 8 yards of material. I get a price break from my suppliers @ 10 yards. Probably end up costing the same. That's what I'd order & you'd get the rest of the materials when the job's done.
Some materials can vary slightly in color from roll-to-roll which are not evident until the pieces cut from the different rolls are side by side. Having that extra material hasn't cost you anymore than what is actually required, & if the seats ever need a repair, the repaired section(s) will not stick out like a sore thumb. There's also enough to repair larger pieces, such as an insert. (Take that screwdriver outa your back pocket when you jump in the truck! Lol! Actually...don't laugh. I've done that myself! In my own truck!!!)

So...8 yards of material & about 20 hours to do the job.

 

[sewlow]

WOW! Thank you very much for all your insight on this and for showing off your work! That is some excellent craftsmanship. I definitely see how the material prices could skyrocket quickly and I wasn't considering that before. Wouldn't want to cheap out to turn around and re-do it next year. Of course, once the dash is done up right, all seats, other panels, and trim have to match! Otherwise it'd be like wearing muck boots with a nice suit!

We started laying out some scrap pieces of vinyl last night & visualizing the layout a little bit. I also learned how it's not as simple as just stretching material over the curves with elbow grease & heat. Several pieces cut at just the right angles would be a must to get each panel laying flat & even on the surfaces. I was confident for a moment in how to pattern but when my wife started talking about the science of getting those curves right with the seam stitching & folding techniques I glazed over a bit. I may have blacked out when I looked up pricing for a decent cover stitch machine she requested to do the job. I've never seen one used for this so I think she's pulling my leg to get a new toy or talk me out of this.

I believe now that the cost of getting this done would eat up more than my entire interior budget. (That includes: I'm splurging on the seats, and also doing some insulation, used dash, new steering wheel, HVAC refresh, and some extra for any incidentals) It would also be nearly "too nice" for me to want to use for its intended purpose. I think I'm better off repairing the cracks and convincing myself the eyesore is OK or cough up the cash for a decent dash. Still might give it a shot for the learning expierience.

Vinyl has a stretch one way but not the other. That stretch has to be used in such a manner so that the vinyl will conform to the various shapes of the dash. ...and that doesn't always run in the same direction for each & every individual piece. Because that stretch is off & running in different directions, it effects the amount allowed for seam allowances. One piece of vinyl may get the usual 3/8" allowance, while the piece it's sewn to, may have nothing for an allowance.

If your wife really would like a proper S/machine for upholstery work, what she needs is an Industrial compound walking foot machine. That just means that both the upper & lower feed dogs move in concert with each other. The ability to reverse is mandatory. For locking the stitch at the end of a run.
She'll know what I'm talking about.
What you don't want is a 'commercial' machine. They look the same, except just the lower feed dog moves. The upper kinda floats & flips around. They usually use smaller motors. Smaller needles too. This type of machine is more for the clothing industry.
Keep an eye on the auctions. I've seen good quality Industrial machines go for as little as $300.00, because the other bidders didn't know what they were looking at. I wouldn't spend more than $800.00 for a very good, near new one. Brand new ones go for about $2000.00 & more, depending on it's features, such as CNC servo motors, auto-thread cutters, etc, etc.
But once the machines hit that $800.00 mark, an average price for a used machine, they hold that value. Their age doesn't really matter as long as they still stitch.
My go-to machine, my baby, was 30 years old when I bought it in 1978. I have 2 others, both much newer, but I just prefer that old gal. The new ones feel...small. Weaker in comparison. Not as capable. The old one has quirks. But after all these years, I know what they are & just how to correct her when she gets a little bitchy.

 

[MSCustoms]

Vinyl has a stretch one way but not the other. That stretch has to be used in such a manner so that the vinyl will conform to the various shapes of the dash. ...and that doesn't always run in the same direction for each & every individual piece. Because that stretch is off & running in different directions, it effects the amount allowed for seam allowances. One piece of vinyl may get the usual 3/8" allowance, while the piece it's sewn to, may have nothing for an allowance.

If your wife really would like a proper S/machine for upholstery work, what she needs is an Industrial compound walking foot machine. That just means that both the upper & lower feed dogs move in concert with each other. The ability to reverse is mandatory. For locking the stitch at the end of a run.
She'll know what I'm talking about.
What you don't want is a 'commercial' machine. They look the same, except just the lower feed dog moves. The upper kinda floats & flips around. They usually use smaller motors. Smaller needles too. This type of machine is more for the clothing industry.
Keep an eye on the auctions. I've seen good quality Industrial machines go for as little as $300.00, because the other bidders didn't know what they were looking at. I wouldn't spend more than $800.00 for a very good, near new one. Brand new ones go for about $2000.00 & more, depending on it's features, such as CNC servo motors, auto-thread cutters, etc, etc.
But once the machines hit that $800.00 mark, an average price for a used machine, they hold that value. Their age doesn't really matter as long as they still stitch.
My go-to machine, my baby, was 30 years old when I bought it in 1978. I have 2 others, both much newer, but I just prefer that old gal. The new ones feel...small. Weaker in comparison. Not as capable. The old one has quirks. But after all these years, I know what they are & just how to correct her when she gets a little bitchy.

X2 on reverse stitching, really wish mine had it.