HELP need a bigger oil pan SBC

[L31MaxExpress]

I did not see what that mattered, I needed a deeper pan...I already knew that, I have one that would fit but lacked a baffle.

I am not buying any other parts, I bought a Stock Melling BBC stock pump...and pickup...so that was a suggestion I was not interested it and did not want a bunch of posts as to what pump I SHOULD BUY...

So if I could not say anything nice I said nothing...

Give me a break.

That pump does not need a deeper pan unless you have the wrong pickup. Last I checked a pickup was a fraction of the cost of a pan. That is why I asked, but you apparently know better.

 

[tayto]

you talk about not hot rodding yet you are using a BBC oil pump. you are not reving high, the oil pump will just rob power, which is normally a good trade off for something that needs it. i also don't understand why you need a deep pan, just change the pickup tube. you are further complicating your swap.

how to do lean cruise on the '7427 has been posted on gearhead-efi. you can run in a semi-open loop mode or if you're not running EGR you can do a pseudo lean cruise (shared/developed by someone on this forum). you will be in for heartache with zero experience tuning aftwr you complete your drivetrain swap. i also hate to say it but this "hobby" is not for people on a limited fixed income. it is not what it was 30+ years ago. and what you're doing is 100% hot rodding. fitting an aftermarket overdrive to a transmission, swapping in an induction setup that never came on your vehicle lineup, building a stroker, and making a factory PCM run a setup it was never intended to. THIS IS HOTRODDING.

 

[L31MaxExpress]

you talk about not hot rodding yet you are using a BBC oil pump. you are not reving high, the oil pump will just rob power, which is normally a good trade off for something that needs it. i also don't understand why you need a deep pan, just change the pickup tube. you are further complicating your swap.

how to do lean cruise on the '7427 has been posted on gearhead-efi. you can run in a semi-open loop mode or if you're not running EGR you can do a pseudo lean cruise (shared/developed by someone on this forum). you will be in for heartache with zero experience tuning aftwr you complete your drivetrain swap. i also hate to say it but this "hobby" is not for people on a limited fixed income. it is not what it was 30+ years ago. and what you're doing is 100% hot rodding. fitting an aftermarket overdrive to a transmission, swapping in an induction setup that never came on your vehicle lineup, building a stroker, and making a factory PCM run a setup it was never intended to. THIS IS HOTRODDING.

The big block pump is needed for high torque, low rpm aka lugging the engine to protect the rod bearings from metal on metal contact. It builds full pressure more quickly, thus ensuring the rod bearings maintain a proper oil film for the loads they are being subjected to. Stock volume big block pump draws about the same power as a small block pump. It has to do with the teeth count and smoother operation as well as better bypass design.

I built a L31 350 for an 1,800 rpm stationary generator a few years ago. It was low hour but had wiped the roller lifters and cam from lack of oiling to the rollers. The rod bearings were also showing signs of wear from the constant heavy load, low rpm useage. I used roller lifters that had an oiling slot and a big block pump. It has ~1,800 hours on it now, twice what it had when I had to go into it. At 1,800 rpm it carries ~50 psi of pressure. The oil has been analyzed in it after changes and material wear particles are practically non-existant count wise in the analysis. Also done a couple of filter cuts and all seems good. It is fired on natural gas so everything stays very clean.

 

[racprops]

L31MaxExpress Thanks you show what I was told about running the big block pump as well.​

The Big Block pump is TALLER bu a 1/4 inch to 1/2 an inch, my stock pan barely cleared the SBC pump, not the BBC.

Rich

 

[racprops]

tayto

“i also hate to say it but this "hobby" is not for people on a limited fixed income. it is not what it was 30+ years ago. and what you're doing is 100% hot rodding. fitting an aftermarket overdrive to a transmission, swapping in an induction setup that never came on your vehicle lineup, building a stroker, and making a factory PCM run a setup it was never intended to. THIS IS HOTRODDING.:

I would agree BUT everywhere I have posted, ask these questions, even speed shop and performance machine shop have all been very negative about all of this.

Building an engine for LOW RPMS is not heard of except in Rock Climbing….

And even they are all seeking max HP.

When I had my 193 swill port heads done I was told it was waste of THEIR time as they will not breathe over 5K.

When I ask for help with the TPI intake again I ran into it was waste of THEIR time as they will not breathe over 5K.

Hot Rodding has always been how to get the MAX HP and TORQUE out of an engine.

Now they are getting 300 to 400 HP out of little 2 and 3 Liter engines with dual turbo chargers all the good stuff of hot rodding.

You say this not a hobby for small pockets, buying one of the new Buzz Bombs of performance cars is also not for the faint hearted either.

FYI This is not my normal hobby, this is my third rebuild engine in my 58 years of cars, one in the 60s a rebuilt Studebaker 289 for my 56 Golden Hawk it lasted for about three years and rebuilt TR4 4 cylinder in the 70s…and now this and only because NO one makes anything like it so I had to.

Nearly every aspect of this build has been met with disbelief, criticism, and in some cases, harassment.

I have a copy of book on how to build a RV for MPG and performance…it is great but sadly before Fuel injection and tune port systems.

Even then the total cost will be FAR FAR Cheaper to buying anything like her…

And her parts and repairs are MUCH cheaper that anything newer that 2015.

And in SO MANY ways she is VERY special, if you care to check her out here:

Facebook

www.facebook.com

 

[tayto]

I stand correct on the BB pump, I assumed it was just another high volume high pressure pump that is generally not needed for most applications.

I run 193s on my 355 that I built for my truck, they work great for what they were designed for. mine have no problem running to 6000 rpm, but you can feel they definitely drop off drastically in power. They made peak torque in 3000 rpm range, but the engine dyno didn't read lower than 3000rpm.

Here is a factory 5qt oil pan. I have seen these on marine engines. I had one and seem to remember it wasn't going to work in my 86 1/2 ton ao I just went back to a stock pan... you will have to buy one and compare it to your factory one short of installing it and seeing if it will fit. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=877957&cc=1044166&pt=5562

I just cleaned up an LT1 out of a Caprice and it had a similar pan to my truck, my pickup was at least an 1" lower than the pump bolt, so I don't see a 1/4 taller pump not working in the stock pan. this can be checked with the pan removed and a straight edge and ruler.

 

[racprops]

Thanks but you missed my post about getting a pan, for $55.00.

 

[racprops]

And thank you for reminding me about gearhead efi.

Rich

 

[Schurkey]

The Big Block pump is TALLER bu a 1/4 inch to 1/2 an inch, my stock pan barely cleared the SBC pump, not the BBC.

POST PHOTOS of the pump, pickup, and pan.

What pan are you using? I'm gonna call you on this. I wanna see how your PUMP doesn't clear the pan. I've got a bbc pump--M77--and the same 305S pickup that comes with the M99HV-S which is Melling's kit to put a BBC pump into a SBC. Aside from having to trim the windage tray, it fits the stock TBI/Vortec pan just fine. This will all be installed into the '77 Concours (Nova) Vortec-shortblock replacement engine that I thought was going to be finished last summer, and which is currently machined and rusting in my shop right now.

Ok, the BB pump is taller. SO WHAT? It's the pickup that matters, not the pump height. The pickup hangs significantly below the pump.

You keep going on and on about the PUMP not clearing the pan. Multiple people have tried to get you to understand that the pump fits just fine, the PICKUP, or the way the pickup is positioned may be a problem.

You do not need a different pan. You might need a different pickup, or maybe the pickup wasn't installed into the pump at the proper angle. This is not a pump problem, and it's almost certainly not a pan problem unless you've got a pan that's unusual in a way I'm not familiar with. You have a pickup problem.

 

[L31MaxExpress]

POST PHOTOS of the pump, pickup, and pan.

What pan are you using? I'm gonna call you on this. I wanna see how your PUMP doesn't clear the pan. I've got a bbc pump--M77--and the same 305S pickup that comes with the M99HV-S which is Melling's kit to put a BBC pump into a SBC. Aside from having to trim the windage tray, it fits the stock TBI/Vortec pan just fine. This will all be installed into the '77 Concours (Nova) Vortec-shortblock replacement engine that I thought was going to be finished last summer, and which is currently machined and rusting in my shop right now.

Ok, the BB pump is taller. SO WHAT? It's the pickup that matters, not the pump height. The pickup hangs significantly below the pump.

You keep going on and on about the PUMP not clearing the pan. Multiple people have tried to get you to understand that the pump fits just fine, the PICKUP, or the way the pickup is positioned may be a problem.

You do not need a different pan. You might need a different pickup, or maybe the pickup wasn't installed into the pump at the proper angle. This is not a pump problem, and it's almost certainly not a pan problem unless you've got a pan that's unusual in a way I'm not familiar with. You have a pickup problem.

He still does not get it. I built a pan for an AWD Astro van using the much smaller 4.3L sump end grafted on to the front end to make a V8 pan. The big block pump fit in that tiny sump as well. 4x4 or AWD 4.3L sump is tiny. The pump is not even close to hitting the bottom of a pan or the sides for that matter.

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