350 stroker build (ca smog legal?)

[Supercharged111]

You can’t make a blanket statement about all of the people working at the smog stations. You dont think that some of them are smart enough to loom into the computer history?

I agree that most of the time they don’t look into this but you can’t say that they can’t.

It sounds to me like they can't for whatever reason. But my blanket statement was aimed more toward most jobs where folks are trained to be just smart enough to push the button but are too dumb to ask why. Smog ref I'm sure is no different..Sure you'll get the occasional dude who's been at it for a long time and takes his work seriously, but he's not in the majoity. No matter how good a mechanic you are, if you've never tuned before then you don't know how to. But of what relevance is this when their tools are likely automated anyway? I can't imagine them not. They plug in, it gives them a green check mark, and away you go. If you pass that and a visual, why would anyone want to dig any deeper? And even if they did, they're unlikely to find any failing criteria. How TF do they know what a stock VE or timing map looks like compared to yours and the other jillion cars that will roll through their shop?

 

[Road Trip]

How TF do they know what a stock VE or timing map looks like compared to yours and the other jillion cars that will roll through their shop?

I can speak to this, for in a previous life one of my tasks was identifying/verifying that the
correct firmware was running in all the subsystems running underneath the operating system
that several hundred networked clients would connect to. Every piece of code involved in
actually running the computer hardware had a checksum value embedded with the code itself.

Think of the checksum like an engine badge on the side of your vehicle. I like the implied excellence
of 427, so that's what I put on the side of my ride, as part of giving it 'the right look'.

But when I take my ride to the local show & shine and try to pass it off as a '69 COPO Camaro, all is
well until the old dude sidles up, asks me to open the hood, looks at the narrow valve covers,
tiny harmonic balancer, 2bbl Rochester 2GV, etc., and asks where are the missing 120 cubic inches?
Busted. :0)

In much the same manner, if I had any question about the legitimacy of the checksum stored with
the image, in less time than it takes to type this in I could take that image and calculate the *actual*
checksum, and if even a single 1 or 0 was changed, the checksum will calculate out to be a different
value, and again busted. (Whether hardware malfunction or unauthorized code change due to
a virus, etc.) As mentioned elsewhere, even if you just change the VATS from 1 to 0 it is easily observable.

And all this functionality can be automated so that it's just one more button to press at the test
station. Or just embedded into the existing emissions test procedure. And if asked, the operator might
tell you that checksum means to view people walking past while enjoying his break.

One last thing, without knowing it we perform our own simple checksum when we go to the store
and inspect the contents of a carton of eggs prior to purchasing them. If there's anything but
12 uncracked eggs in the carton, we put them back down and get another.
(Here's a little more on checksum stuff if you find this interesting.)

So, for 99.999% of us, the game is over in places like Cali. But if you find yourself around
exceptional talent and they are talking about sandboxing the good stuff, yet only presenting
a stock facade, then these are the kinds of enthusiasts who would know what the expected
checksum is, and be sure that everything is 'reported' correctly.

Fun stuff to contemplate/appreciate. But being extra clever can come at a cost. Ask VW. (Dieselgate)

 

[Supercharged111]

I can speak to this, for in a previous life one of my tasks was identifying/verifying that the
correct firmware was running in all the subsystems running underneath the operating system
that several hundred networked clients would connect to. Every piece of code involved in
actually running the computer hardware had a checksum value embedded with the code itself.

Think of the checksum like an engine badge on the side of your vehicle. I like the implied excellence
of 427, so that's what I put on the side of my ride, as part of giving it 'the right look'.

But when I take my ride to the local show & shine and try to pass it off as a '69 COPO Camaro, all is
well until the old dude sidles up, asks me to open the hood, looks at the narrow valve covers,
tiny harmonic balancer, 2bbl Rochester 2GV, etc., and asks where are the missing 120 cubic inches?
Busted. :0)

In much the same manner, if I had any question about the legitimacy of the checksum stored with
the image, in less time than it takes to type this in I could take that image and calculate the *actual*
checksum, and if even a single 1 or 0 was changed, the checksum will calculate out to be a different
value, and again busted. (Whether hardware malfunction or unauthorized code change due to
a virus, etc.) As mentioned elsewhere, even if you just change the VATS from 1 to 0 it is easily observable.

And all this functionality can be automated so that it's just one more button to press at the test
station. Or just embedded into the existing emissions test procedure. And if asked, the operator might
tell you that checksum means to view people walking past while enjoying his break.

One last thing, without knowing it we perform our own simple checksum when we go to the store
and inspect the contents of a carton of eggs prior to purchasing them. If there's anything but
12 uncracked eggs in the carton, we put them back down and get another.
(Here's a little more on checksum stuff if you find this interesting.)

So, for 99.999% of us, the game is over in places like Cali. But if you find yourself around
exceptional talent and they are talking about sandboxing the good stuff, yet only presenting
a stock facade, then these are the kinds of enthusiasts who would know what the expected
checksum is, and be sure that everything is 'reported' correctly.

Fun stuff to contemplate/appreciate. But being extra clever can come at a cost. Ask VW. (Dieselgate)

But if folks are passing, how do you explain that? I thought checksum was just a counter. I really don't know what it is when you get into the weeds. I just know how to compare tunes with tuning software and how to edit tunes to make more power. But again, folks with the P01 and P59 (512kb and 1MB 411) are passing with modified computers in CA, so if everything you said is true and it's not because they're using Diablo software then what is the explanation? What I infer is that there are software limitations with the devices they're using. If that's true your average smog ref is up a creek trying to prove that VE, MAF, timing, etc is all stock. These guys aren't passing with deleted EGR, cat, rear O2. They have all the smog control devices in place and are skating by with all the other things changed. Things that don't amount to a hill of beans in terms of emissions because they're obviously passing the sniff test. The PCM is able to run all of its self tests and pass those.

 

[Road Trip]

But if folks are passing, how do you explain that?

I believe you when you state that people are passing. This tells me that currently
the inspection is doing the bare minimum cursory inspection (ie: just reading the
checksum that's being reported and accepting it as fact, instead of taking the additional
step of scanning the actual image, performing a checksum calculation against that,
and then comparing the actual checksum against the 'reported' one.

Going back to my analogy, it would be like walking up to my fake COPO Camaro, observing
the 427 badge, never opening my hood, and declaring my vehicle is legit. Now, according to
the official press release by the people in charge of all this (Cali BAR) they claim they are doing the
full monte with their testing. (BAR Press Release)

But what if they are just doing a cursory scan in the real world, yet reassuring us that they going the
full distance to both score points with the environmentalists on the one hand, and at the same time
use this as a scare tactic for the tuner community?

When it comes to a bureaucracy speaking out of both sides of it's mouth? This wouldn't the first
time something like this has occurred. And as evidenced by these folks passing, this may be the
correct explanation. At the computer level, with enough digging the truth can be uncovered.
With people...sometimes not so much.

I thought checksum was just a counter. I really don't know what it is when you get into the weeds.

No problem, sir. When I switched from fixing cars to computers for a living, I was a stranger in
a strange land. I was a concrete learner working in an abstract virtual environment. But by
using analogies I was eventually able to reason my way through all the secret sauce inside.

Let's use music for this. Pick your favorite song, and assign a unique numerical value for each and every
note in the song, from start to finish. Run all the resulting numbers through the checksum algorithm,
and out pops a value. Go back, edit the song, remove a single note, and rerun the new numbers
through the same algorithm, and you will absolutely get a different number. (See attached.)
(And here's the associated Wiki entry.)

I'll even go so far as to state that the GMT400 forum would not work reliably worldwide without the
use of checksums to validate each individual data packet at each point in it's journey, from New Zealand,
TX, or Sweden, to the server array...and back. And not if, but when stuff gets garbled, it's a failed
checksum that forces a request to retransmit that bad packet...all this going on many layers below
our daily activity. Cool stuff. Checksums are why our computers sound like FM (no static at all) vs the AM
radio with heavy thunderstorms nearby. And then you turn the fluorescents on...

I just know how to compare tunes with tuning software and how to edit tunes to make more power. But again, folks with the P01 and P59 (512kb and 1MB 411) are passing with modified computers in CA, so if everything you said is true and it's not because they're using Diablo software then what is the explanation? What I infer is that there are software limitations with the devices they're using. If that's true your average smog ref is up a creek trying to prove that VE, MAF, timing, etc is all stock. These guys aren't passing with deleted EGR, cat, rear O2. They have all the smog control devices in place and are skating by with all the other things changed. Things that don't amount to a hill of beans in terms of emissions because they're obviously passing the sniff test. The PCM is able to run all of its self tests and pass those.

And your final questions allow me to come full circle on all this.

Based on the evidence that all these people are passing tells me that the
bureaucrats are only looking for a specific calibration number and taking
it at face value? And as always, follow the money. The state wants to
perform as many vehicles tests are quickly as possible, following the
regulations with the least amount of time/money spent.

On the other hand, the Stellantis engineers were highly motivated
to A) figure out what went wrong with their baby, and B) prove that
the $36K expense to repair the Jailbreak special is not a result of
them doing bad job. (I know how I would act if I was directly involved
in this.)

To me, following the money when it comes to people helps to explain
a lot of what goes right *and* wrong with all things having to do
with computers and data.

Sincere apologies for the length, but it's nice to have others interested
in this stuff. Normally when I start talking about all this at a party people
start drifting away like I've got BO or something.


Hope this helps. And I thank my lucky stars that I'm not relocating to Cali...

Cheers -

 

[ernieglez1980]

You can do it I heard a guy on my Facebook group of obs trucks did it. As long as you don't alter anything on the outside they think it's still a 350 and I the sniff test passes you are good they don't connect anything to the computer it's only the sniff test computer is only tested on obd2 . They guy even offered me the specs if I ever wanted to do it. If you have a aftermarket tune on a vehicle you can still pass smog I've done it on my Chevy 5.3 with a diablo predator and never had a problem

 

[ROAD]

Just find someone to clean pipe it