1994 5.7 TBI installing Harmonic balancer, crankshaft balancer, vibration dampener etc

[JustinJ94FSB]

I just finished doing intake manifold gaskets, and a bunch of other gaskets along the way. Got it all put back together and when i was setting the timing i noticed my harmonic balancer wobbling quite a bit. I did some research and it sounds like it is not good to continue driving it like this. Fast forward to now, I have removed my balancer with a puller tool i rented at autozone. I pressed on the new balancer (GM Genuine part #6272222) using the balancer installer tool i also rented. The installer tool is the type with the fitting that you thread into the crank snout and it has a bearing and giant nut and threaded rod, and tightening the big nut presses the balancer on. I greased up the installer tool as well as all the areas where the balancer will be pressing into. I used synthetic bearing grease. I am at a point where i feel like i dont want to keep trying to push it on any further out of fear of stripping my crank snout threads, but after bolting the pulley onto the balancer, i cannot get the bolt/washer to tighten into the crank snout and secure the harmonic balancer. If i put a ratchet on it, it just gets barely more than finger tight and then loose again. like it cant get enough threads to bite onto.

I am wondering how far does the harmonic balancer get pressed on? i put a borescope camera down into the engine bay and i can tell there is like 3/8ths to maybe 1/2" of harmonic balancer shaft that has not been pressed in. But every angle i look, it seems like if i go that far in, my serpentine belt wont work because the pulley down there will be pressed in so far. Also, how do i tell when it has been pressed in as far as it needs to be? I got a haynes manual and it barely even mentions this part. Ive looked on youtube and everyone just says "ok press it on till its seated properly" ok and now you're all done congrats.

also, maybe noteworth. There is, what appears to be, remnants of silicone RTV on the end of the old balancer shaft. Would it be possible for there to be enough RTV goo, at the base of the hole the balancer shaft is being pressed into and it cant seat where it should? Just throwing everything out there that i can. Maybe i just didnt tighten it enough. I have stepped outside of my comfort zone and i am happy i am doing it because i am gaining so much knowledge. But ive hit a speed bump here that has my anxiety/fears taking over. Sorry for the mega post, i can never keep them short no matter how hard i try

 

[Erik the Awful]

A bolt is not required to hold the balancer on, but it's a nice peace of mind. It sounds like you have the wrong size bolt.

A lot of mechanics will put a dab of RTV on the woodruff key channel in the balancer to help prevent leaks. It's also a good idea.

If the belts are aligned, the balancer is all the way on.

 

[Schurkey]

I pressed on the new balancer (GM Genuine part #6272222) using the balancer installer tool i also rented. The installer tool is the type with the fitting that you thread into the crank snout

Did it thread in easily? Did it come back out easily?

Most Chevy cranks are cast iron. Therefore the hole in the snout has cast-iron threads. They're weak, and need a lot of thread engagement--length of bolt--to hold without pulling the threads out.

I am at a point where i feel like i dont want to keep trying to push it on any further out of fear of stripping my crank snout threads, but after bolting the pulley onto the balancer, i cannot get the bolt/washer to tighten into the crank snout and secure the harmonic balancer. If i put a ratchet on it, it just gets barely more than finger tight and then loose again. like it cant get enough threads to bite onto.

A. Threads on bolt are damaged. Inspect the threads, clean 'em up with a die or thread-file as required. Thread files work "pretty good" to restore damaged threads, and they're very inexpensive compared to a proper set of dies. I have these, although they were purchased off of the Mac tool truck a thousand years ago, and probably cost more then than on Amazon today.
www.amazon.com/Lang-Tools-2573-3-Piece-Restorer/dp/B007TMEXTQ/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1O84M5LG7M3CX

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'Course, thread files don't help on female threads.

B. Threads in crank are damaged. Inspect the threads, clean 'em up with a tap as required. A "rethreading/repairing/reforming" tap would be best, but even a regular cutting tap--used carefully--would do. The Lang rethreading kit is strongly recommended, and comes with two of the three thread files. This set is actively knocked-off by the Communists under a dozen different brand names. Beware. The Lang and the Kastar (same company) are the genuine items.
www.amazon.com/Tools-KS971-Piece-Master-Rethreader/dp/B00W4KN5W4/ref=sr_1_13?crid=1LNGH5FC4NAA5

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C. You're using the wrong bolt (unlikely) or you're trying to thread it in at an angle, (unlikely) or some other "operator error" (unlikely.)

I am wondering how far does the harmonic balancer get pressed on?

All the way. It will seat against the lower timing chain sprocket, or the crank sensor reluctor, depending on the engine. Point is, it pushes on until it stops solidly.

how do i tell when it has been pressed in as far as it needs to be?

Until it stops solidly, at which point the pulley will align with the others.

I got a haynes manual and it barely even mentions this part.

Haynes, Chiltons, Clymers, and most Motors manuals make great emergency toilet paper.

Download the REAL manual set for your vehicle from the links posted on this web site.
www.gmt400.com/threads/88-98-service-manuals.43575/

88-98 Service Manuals

Over the years I have collected a bunch of GM service literature. Links to PDF Scans of service and STG manuals and a links to the Parts manuals. You'll need the FREE Adobe Acrobat reader to open these files. Get it directly from Adobe here {http://get.adobe.com/reader/} If you're not...

www.gmt400.com

There is, what appears to be, remnants of silicone RTV on the end of the old balancer shaft.

Yup. Need to seal the keyed area in particular, and the entire snout-to-damper in general.

Would it be possible for there to be enough RTV goo, at the base of the hole the balancer shaft is being pressed into and it cant seat where it should?

Maybe. Another possibility is that the woodruff key(s) have slid out of position and have bound-up the damper.

DO THE PULLEYS ALIGN?

I'm thinking the most-likely problem here is that the threads in the crank got damaged during the pulling of the old damper, or the pushing of the new one. The damper is where it needs to be but the threads on the bolt or in the crank are damaged, so the bolt won't go in.

I remove the damper bolt and bigass washer. Set the washer aside, put the bolt with no washer back into the crank. Then the puller pressure screw pushes on the hardened head of the bolt instead of the cast-iron surrounding the threaded hole.

Similarly, when the damper is going back on, I make sure the threaded adapter goes WAY into the crankshaft threaded hole, so there's lots of thread engagement. Get an inspection mirror or borescope to assure that the woodruff keys are still nicely in place. Some silicone sealer on the ID of the damper especially at the keyway groove. And then use the big nut and bearing/washer to force the damper in place. The threaded adapter should screw out of the crankshaft easily assuring that the crank threads are undamaged.

Bolt and bigass washer go in and get torqued to spec, which can be "interesting" especially with an automatic transmission. A manual trans can be put into high gear, and the wheels chocked, then the bolt tightens into a more-or-less locked-up crankshaft that can't turn without driving the car forward. With an automatic, you've sometimes got to get a "special tool" or a vice-grip or something to jam the flexplate to keep the crank from turning.

 

[Pinger]

Bolt and bigass washer go in and get torqued to spec, which can be "interesting" especially with an automatic transmission. A manual trans can be put into high gear, and the wheels chocked, then the bolt tightens into a more-or-less locked-up crankshaft that can't turn without driving the car forward. With an automatic, you've sometimes got to get a "special tool" or a vice-grip or something to jam the flexplate to keep the crank from turning.

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[Schurkey]

^^^ Yup. More than one way to keep the crank from turning.

A couple of longer bolts in the pulley bolt-holes, and a prybar wedged between them and jammed against the floor works, too.

 

[JustinJ94FSB]

Thank you for all the wisdom. I got the haynes cause back before I even knew how to do an oil change I had one for my first car. It prob helped me a time or 2. But having gone 10-15 years without a manual just learning things as I go and using forums and YouTube and such to figure things out, I decided why not get one, maybe it will help me with this job. It helped precisely zero

So before I had any responses on here, I went to a Chevy dealer to buy a new damper bolt. I talked to a service guy who is an older school dude who knows about Chevy motors which was great. I showed him so pics and explained things. He felt like I had not reached the full seat of the damper to crank housing. That in combination with the sloppy threads on the bolt and probably the crank, I could not get any bite on the threads. So I went home with my new bolt, put the installer tool back on and proceeded to tighten it more. He assured me I'd be able to tell when it seated. Sure enough I had maybe 1 or 2 revolutions of the bolt itself and I couldn't turn the wrench anymore. I took the installer tool back odd, and hand-threaded the new bolt and original washer on and it threaded in significantly better. I still think there is a little wear and tear on the crank threads. This damper has been replaced before. I'm pretty sure the one that was in there is just a cheap Chinese one. There's a possibility they used an impact gun instead of an installation tool to just ram it on there. As of now the damper is on, I feel like it's seated all the way. I didn't know about using silicone to keep oil from getting out through this location, I thought someone was trying to plug a crank seal leak. So I didn't put any on. I will monitor it thoroughly for any signs of leaks. If it leaks I will pull it back off and replace the seal and apply rtv sealant. The guy at the Chevy service department emphasized that "it can leak" not that it certainly will. So for now I'll see how it goes. As of now I am at the torquing stage. Gonna go to the parts store and see if they have a holder tool I can rent so I can finish this up for now. Thanks again for the response and information. I'll come back and post when I finish the last bit of work.

 

[JustinJ94FSB]

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I'm going to try and find something like this. This picture was great it shows me where to put the tool. I was nervous about using those holes but not anymore. Thanks !

 

[PlayingWithTBI]

As of now I am at the torquing stage. Gonna go to the parts store and see if they have a holder tool I can rent so I can finish this up for now.

Don't torque it yet, you may have to pull that bolt to install the crank pulley. Sometimes the center hole in the pulley is too small to fit over the big crank bolt washer. IIRC mine was...

 

[Pinger]

I'm going to try and find something like this. This picture was great it shows me where to put the tool. I was nervous about using those holes but not anymore. Thanks !

If it helps, mine was manufactured by Proto.

 

[Schurkey]

I went home with my new bolt, put the installer tool back on and proceeded to tighten it more. He assured me I'd be able to tell when it seated. Sure enough I had maybe 1 or 2 revolutions of the bolt itself and I couldn't turn the wrench anymore. I took the installer tool back odd,

The threaded part of the installation tool should go "all the way" into the crank snout.

Don't turn the "bolt", turn the nut that threads onto that threaded adapter.

Point being, you don't want to pull the damper on by tightening into the crankshaft, you want to tighten the nut onto the threaded adapter, with the threaded adapter fully into the crank.