Jet dynamic spectrum tuner

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letitsnow

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Appreciate the heads up, I'm hopefully ordering one in the next week or two. Might go through Summit though, they have the 14005 for $399 with free shipping.

Thinking more bout this tuning stuff - did you ever figure out what was going wrong with your tunes that made your 4l60e die behind the 4.3? I ask because I have that combo (BB tuned) in my s10 with 239,000 miles, (all untouched as far as I can tell) and it hauls *** still.​

Am only asking this so that I know/learn what not to do.
 

df2x4

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Thinking more bout this tuning stuff - did you ever figure out what was going wrong with your tunes that made your 4l60e die behind the 4.3? I ask because I have that combo (BB tuned) in my s10 with 239,000 miles, (all untouched as far as I can tell) and it hauls *** still.​

Am only asking this so that I know/learn what not to do.

I swapped to a 4L80E with a stock tune after I killed the second (built) 4L60E so I'm really not 100% sure, but my suspicion is that having BBP remove torque management from the tune is what kept killing the 60Es. Justin advised me that it was a bad idea and I asked him to do it anyway. They removed it completely and about 500 miles later my stock 60E went out. Got it rebuilt to the tune of around $2700 and it shifted so hard with the billet servos and no TM that I asked BBP to put all the TM back in. That helped it shift smoother, but I think the damage was done by that point. I got about 10K miles total out of that 60E before it failed in the same way as the first (lost 3rd and 4th gear).

Personally I would not recommend removing any torque management from a 4L60E, I think they need all of it they can get to stay alive.
 

1998_K1500_Sub

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When you have tuned the black boxes - do you remember if you were able to keep the tcc clutch locked when you are (almost) off of the throttle? Maybe the black box is too dumb to even have that as a possibility??

I looked into this possibility a while ago, when you were discussing this topic in another thread... I literally fired-up my JET DST tuner and looked to see what tuning options might enable TCC lockup (at least, for my 1998 L31 4L60E black box ECU).

I studied the tuning options for a while and came away with this: There are a number of tunable parameters that might enable TCC lockup in the situations you described. But the changes weren't (to me) necessarily clear-cut / obvious, meaning one would have to try fiddling with different parameters to see which one(s) gave the most favorable result. There was no parameter AFAIK for "Retain TCC lock until engine RPM < threshold". In contrast, there *are* obvious parameters to, say, leave TCC locked during shifts.

If you want more detail on this, send me a PM.
 

letitsnow

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I looked into this possibility a while ago, when you were discussing this topic in another thread... I literally fired-up my JET DST tuner and looked to see what tuning options might enable TCC lockup (at least, for my 1998 L31 4L60E black box ECU).

I studied the tuning options for a while and came away with this: There are a number of tunable parameters that might enable TCC lockup in the situations you described. But the changes weren't (to me) necessarily clear-cut / obvious, meaning one would have to try fiddling with different parameters to see which one(s) gave the most favorable result. There was no parameter AFAIK for "Retain TCC lock until engine RPM < threshold". In contrast, there *are* obvious parameters to, say, leave TCC locked during shifts.

If you want more detail on this, send me a PM.

Thanks. The info above is helpful. If keeping the tcc locked isn't a clear-cut option on this tuner, I worry that (possibly) making it happen by adjusting the other parameters is too risky, possibly causing other pressure type issues at bad times etc - Especially for somebody like myself who has no experience. Thanks again.
 

df2x4

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Just ordered JET DST 14005 from Summit Racing, it was $432 after tax. Happy to be adding this to the tool collection.

Might have to start shopping for a laptop though... The one I've been using is a 12 year old gigantic desktop replacement (battery hog) and not Windows 11 compatible. I'm sure it'll work fine for these purposes, but it would be nice to have something smaller and lighter with better battery life.
 

RDF1

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I swapped to a 4L80E with a stock tune after I killed the second (built) 4L60E so I'm really not 100% sure, but my suspicion is that having BBP remove torque management from the tune is what kept killing the 60Es. Justin advised me that it was a bad idea and I asked him to do it anyway. They removed it completely and about 500 miles later my stock 60E went out. Got it rebuilt to the tune of around $2700 and it shifted so hard with the billet servos and no TM that I asked BBP to put all the TM back in. That helped it shift smoother, but I think the damage was done by that point. I got about 10K miles total out of that 60E before it failed in the same way as the first (lost 3rd and 4th gear).

Personally I would not recommend removing any torque management from a 4L60E, I think they need all of it they can get to stay alive.

Removing TM by itself wont kill the 60E. It helps the hard parts by keeping it tho.
Using a pressure gauge and tuning the pressures with the tune helps the most.
If you were using the stock torque converter and it was shifting brutally hard, ive seen several 60s die like this same death. Do you know what failed in it?
 

df2x4

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If you were using the stock torque converter and it was shifting brutally hard, ive seen several 60s die like this same death. Do you know what failed in it?

It was a stock replacement converter. Not sure what parts failed, I just limped it to my mechanic's shop for the 4L80E swap in second gear. That 4L60E is still sitting on some saw horses in my dad's garage, guess I could tear it down one of these days.
 

1998_K1500_Sub

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Just ordered JET DST 14005 from Summit Racing, it was $432 after tax. Happy to be adding this to the tool collection.

Might have to start shopping for a laptop though... The one I've been using is a 12 year old gigantic desktop replacement (battery hog) and not Windows 11 compatible. I'm sure it'll work fine for these purposes, but it would be nice to have something smaller and lighter with better battery life.

Be very careful when following JET's software installation instructions (onto your laptop), they're very poorly written.

Read the instructions ENTIRELY first (it's only 1 page), because the instructions for Win10/Win11 were (in my case) at the BOTTOM of the sheet.
 
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1998_K1500_Sub

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Using a pressure gauge and tuning the pressures with the tune helps the most.
This to me sounds like the best advice around, but...

How does one know / judge what the pressures ought to be? The required pressure at any given time must at least depend on...

- which each "gear" the trans is in (as there may be different clutches / bands / servos involved in each gear)

- composition of the friction materials,

- the engine's applied torque, and

- the torque converter's torque multiplication, and

- maybe other stuff.

"What's the proper pressure" is something I've wondered about for years.

Do tell.
 

L31MaxExpress

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This to me sounds like the best advice around, but...

How does one know / judge what the pressures ought to be? The required pressure at any given time must at least depend on...

- which each "gear" the trans is in (as there may be different clutches / bands / servos involved in each gear)

- composition of the friction materials,

- the engine's applied torque, and

- the torque converter's torque multiplication, and

- maybe other stuff.

"What's the proper pressure" is something I've wondered about for years.

Do tell.
I like to monitor slip rpm especially on the 4L80E where the input speed sensor is physically reading it as well as commanded vs actual shift times to help sort that out.

That being said the GM torque tables are calibrated well in excess of the torque ouput the engine can deliver. GM engineers validated those pressure torque maps. I generally do not have to mess with them much to get a nice shift. If I want it to shift a little firmer, I use the Tow/Haul mapping or the mapping from a more powerful engine using the same transmission. My Express has the Tow/Haul line pressure mapping from an 8.1L for example. At higher torque output values I will decrease the desired shift time a bit and I also increase the torque cut. What that does is cuts more torque, but for a shorter period of time, allowing for a quicker shift without abusing the friction surfaces or geartrain. Would you rather cut 25% of the torque for 0.5s or 40% for 0.25-0.3s? I can tell you from having tested it, 40% for shorter time makes the shift firmer, is easier on the transmission and results in quicker acceleration. When you cut the input torque during the shift, it allows all the internal rotating parts of the transmission to change speeds more easily and quickly. Anybody that wants to reduce or remove torque management is doing it wrong, same as commanding 0 for shift times.

While it was not a setup I would have done personally, I have tuned a 4L65E that is still living behind an 8.1L in a H2. I have learned a lot about keeping those piles of garbage in one piece behind decent power. It almost all focuses on properly using torque management. The 8.1L in that application is so detuned from tq management it will not go WOT until it is at 4,000 rpm but that being said it still has far better torque output everywhere than the 6.0L it replaced, so that big heavy H2 is still alot quicker and the 8.1L moves it much more easily off road.
 
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