Rear axle seal job

[Schurkey]

I “know” what the words mean. There is no reason as to why he is saying it! It does not matter how you clock a brake drum when reinstalling it. Drums are balanced independently.

What if it's not the balance we're concerned with?

I put drums/rotors back in the same relative positions they were when I took them off, because I don't want to introduce variables that could increase lateral run-out.

I don't know the history of the car--so I don't know if the rotors were cut "on the vehicle". If they were, I don't want to screw-up their positioning on the hub because any hub runout affected the rotor machining.

About the same for drums. Even though I sand/polish loose rust from the inside of the drum mounting surface, and the outside of the axle shaft or hub...I don't want the drum being unhappy with the axle mounting. It's just good practice to put stuff back where it was.

I wonder if the weights are suppose to be opposite on each side or something

They won't stay in the same position relative to each other. First time you spin one wheel, or go around a corner, they'll move relative to each other.

 

[east302]

What the heck are you saying here?? You need to elaborate this statement!

GM references it in the factory manual, marking both the tire to flange and flange to drum orientations. It doesn’t expand on the rationale, but to me it implies that it was a relic of on-car wheel balancing or to reduce customer bring-backs if the technician didn’t quite clean any rust build-up on the flange.

Either way, it takes a minute to do though I’d admit that I forget half the time and have had no issues that I noticed.

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[Schurkey]

it implies that it was a relic of on-car wheel balancing or to reduce customer bring-backs if the technician didn’t quite clean any rust build-up on the flange.

I already talked about rust on the flange. Oh, man. On-car wheel balancing.

I'm so old, I've actually done that. Mind you, the machine was a friggin' antique when I got to it, the days of this being a popular procedure were long-gone when I got involved in '83--'84. This horseshit dates from the 40s--50s, maybe early 60s.

You young pups have no idea.

The main items were a clamp-on unit that attached to the wheel, with four concentric knobs at spindle-height (centered on the wheel); and a power source--an electric motor spinning a small drum, in a wheeled frame. The drum had a handle so it could be pushed against the tire to spin it, and then let go so the drum didn't stay in contact with the spinning tire.

Jack up one wheel. Align the power source with the tire. Clamp the balancer device to the wheel. Jam the drum into the tire, and spin the wheel. When the wheel is spinning good and fast, retract the drum. Touch your lips to the fender, and then play with the four knobs until the fender didn't shake. You're doing this blind, 'cause your face is stuck against sheetmetal.

Two knobs adjusted the clock position of the weight--clockwise and counterclockwise.

Two knobs adjusted the radial position of the weight--close to the spindle, or farther away from the spindle.

You have no idea where to put the weight in two dimensions, so you ****** the knobs and hope for the best, using your lips or nose to judge vibration level. 100% trial-and-error as you're playing with the knobs.

The whole assembly--clamp-on frame, the adjustable weight, and the four knobs--all spun at wheel speed. So you'd touch the knobs to slow them as a means of getting them to turn.

As the tire slowed down, you'd have to pull the motor back in contact with the tire to speed it up again.

And all of this was done by "feel" because you were kissing the ****** fender--your lips were the vibration sensor.

When the knobs got diddled enough that the fender shook the least, the tire was allowed to slow to a stop. Then you could see on a dial how the clamp-on device had positioned the weight. Remove the clamp-on tool, then pound a wheel weight of the proper size onto the rim in the position indicated.

Don't get me started on the problems of a positraction axle when you really only want one wheel to spin at a time.

If you gave a ****, you'd spin the wheel AGAIN, without the clamp-on device, kiss the fender, and verify that the weight was an appropriate amount and in the right place.

Then you let that wheel down, go to another, jack the car up, start over. I suppose that if you had a frame-contact hoist, you could lift the entire vehicle two inches off the ground. That'd save some time.

Took longer to do one wheel than to spin four wheels on an off-the-car balancer, and the result wasn't nearly as good on most vehicles.

I have seen those machines on eBay. They should be put in a crusher so that somebody could make something useful from the scrap. Fookin' junk. The only time we used it was when the off-car, two-plane wheel balancer didn't correct a vibration--which pretty-much meant that the brake drum was out of balance. The shop owner was too stupid to sell a new brake drum, and I was too stupid to try to mount the brake drum on the off-car wheel balancer to prove that the drum was the real problem. So we'd trot out the on-car piece of crap. OSHA would have gone crazy just before the inspectors head exploded.

Look NOW, there's this one on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174713255297?hash=item28adb8b581:g:9PEAAOSwPMlesv9J

And this one might be the same model I used.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373567674881?hash=item56fa5e5a01:g:ip0AAOSwXSJgkcTt

 

[SUBURBAN5]

I already talked about rust on the flange. Oh, man. On-car wheel balancing.

I'm so old, I've actually done that. Mind you, the machine was a friggin' antique when I got to it, the days of this being a popular procedure were long-gone when I got involved in '83--'84. This horseshit dates from the 40s--50s, maybe early 60s.

You young pups have no idea.

The main items were a clamp-on unit that attached to the wheel, with four concentric knobs at spindle-height (centered on the wheel); and a power source--an electric motor spinning a small drum, in a wheeled frame. The drum had a handle so it could be pushed against the tire to spin it, and then let go so the drum didn't stay in contact with the spinning tire.

Jack up one wheel. Align the power source with the tire. Clamp the balancer device to the wheel. Jam the drum into the tire, and spin the wheel. When the wheel is spinning good and fast, retract the drum. Touch your lips to the fender, and then play with the four knobs until the fender didn't shake. You're doing this blind, 'cause your face is stuck against sheetmetal.

Two knobs adjusted the clock position of the weight--clockwise and counterclockwise.

Two knobs adjusted the radial position of the weight--close to the spindle, or farther away from the spindle.

You have no idea where to put the weight in two dimensions, so you ****** the knobs and hope for the best, using your lips or nose to judge vibration level. 100% trial-and-error as you're playing with the knobs.

The whole assembly--clamp-on frame, the adjustable weight, and the four knobs--all spun at wheel speed. So you'd touch the knobs to slow them as a means of getting them to turn.

As the tire slowed down, you'd have to pull the motor back in contact with the tire to speed it up again.

And all of this was done by "feel" because you were kissing the ****** fender--your lips were the vibration sensor.

When the knobs got diddled enough that the fender shook the least, the tire was allowed to slow to a stop. Then you could see on a dial how the clamp-on device had positioned the weight. Remove the clamp-on tool, then pound a wheel weight of the proper size onto the rim in the position indicated.

Don't get me started on the problems of a positraction axle when you really only want one wheel to spin at a time.

If you gave a ****, you'd spin the wheel AGAIN, without the clamp-on device, kiss the fender, and verify that the weight was an appropriate amount and in the right place.

Then you let that wheel down, go to another, jack the car up, start over. I suppose that if you had a frame-contact hoist, you could lift the entire vehicle two inches off the ground. That'd save some time.

Took longer to do one wheel than to spin four wheels on an off-the-car balancer, and the result wasn't nearly as good on most vehicles.

I have seen those machines on eBay. They should be put in a crusher so that somebody could make something useful from the scrap. Fookin' junk. The only time we used it was when the off-car, two-plane wheel balancer didn't correct a vibration--which pretty-much meant that the brake drum was out of balance. The shop owner was too stupid to sell a new brake drum, and I was too stupid to try to mount the brake drum on the off-car wheel balancer to prove that the drum was the real problem. So we'd trot out the on-car piece of crap. OSHA would have gone crazy just before the inspectors head exploded.

Look NOW, there's this one on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174713255297?hash=item28adb8b581:g:9PEAAOSwPMlesv9J

And this one might be the same model I used.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373567674881?hash=item56fa5e5a01:g:ip0AAOSwXSJgkcTt

Damm schurkey I bet you go to discount tire and shake your head with how fast and simple those machines are lol... cant believe how time consuming it used to be but make sense considering everything had to start from some point. Kinda reminds me of some of my old diesel friends complain about how they used to change semi/bus wheels back then with the bolts on the outer part of the rim and they said they used to freeze on the rim and were known to pop off and shoot out hurting a lot of techs over the years

 

[PlayingWithTBI]

Look NOW, there's this one on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174713255297?hash=item28adb8b581:g:9PEAAOSwPMlesv9J

And this one might be the same model I used.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373567674881?hash=item56fa5e5a01:g:ip0AAOSwXSJgkcTt

I remember those, LOL. When I 1st started working part time at a service station in the 70's, all we had was a bubble balancer and a manual tire changer with a pneumatic cylinder to break the bead with the wheel on the ground. Then we put it on a pedestal and using a bar pulling against the center post peeled the tire off the rim.

some of my old diesel friends complain about how they used to change semi/bus wheels back then with the bolts on the outer part of the rim and they said they used to freeze on the rim and were known to pop off and shoot out hurting a lot of techs over the years

We called them California hubs, kinda like the old mobile home rims. If you didn't tighten them just right the wheel would wobble down the road

How about those "widow maker" split rims and the tire inflating/bead popping cage - more fun!

 

[SUBURBAN5]

I remember those, LOL. When I 1st started working part time at a service station in the 70's, all we had was a bubble balancer and a manual tire changer with a pneumatic cylinder to break the bead with the wheel on the ground. Then we put it on a pedestal and using a bar pulling against the center post peeled the tire off the rim.


We called them California hubs, kinda like the old mobile home rims. If you didn't tighten them just right the wheel would wobble down the road

How about those "widow maker" split rims and the tire inflating/bead popping cage - more fun!

Yup we have a cage at our shop lol. And yeah those splitting rims I heard were a eye opener. Fortunately I'm one of those "young bucks" who never even touched it lol. I just ask a lot of questions at work and like to know how stuff was done...

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[PlayingWithTBI]

^^^Yepper a "California Hub" came out of hiding and in person there

I hated those things!

 

[Schurkey]

When I 1st started working part time at a service station in the 70's, all we had was a bubble balancer and a manual tire changer with a pneumatic cylinder to break the bead with the wheel on the ground. Then we put it on a pedestal and using a bar pulling against the center post peeled the tire off the rim.

The same shop that had the on-car wheel balancer had a semi-manual tire machine.

The thing had a pneumatic ram to pop the bead, but there was no moveable arm to skin the tire off--and back on--the rim. That was done with a long pole braced, as you said, against the center post.

How about those "widow maker" split rims and the tire inflating/bead popping cage - more fun!

Yup we have a cage at our shop lol. And yeah those splitting rims I heard were a eye opener. Fortunately I'm one of those "young bucks" who never even touched it

I spent a short time working for a company that supplied school buses to the local district.

Many of the buses had split-rim wheels. We didn't have a cage. We were told to "be careful", and then slide the wheel/tire under the bus frame before inflating.

That way, only your hand/wrist or arm would be destroyed, from reaching across the tire/rim to hold the air chuck on the valve stem (not your entire body.)

I was working on a way to get a clip-on tire chuck (the shop didn't have one) attached to my inflator just before I left that place.

Apparently, that shop was never inspected by OSHA.

 

[SUBURBAN5]

The same shop that had the on-car wheel balancer had a semi-manual tire machine.

The thing had a pneumatic ram to pop the bead, but there was no moveable arm to skin the tire off--and back on--the rim. That was done with a long pole braced, as you said, against the center post.




I spent a short time working for a company that supplied school buses to the local district.

Many of the buses had split-rim wheels. We didn't have a cage. We were told to "be careful", and then slide the wheel/tire under the bus frame before inflating.

That way, only your hand/wrist or arm would be destroyed, from reaching across the tire/rim to hold the air chuck on the valve stem (not your entire body.)

I was working on a way to get a clip-on tire chuck (the shop didn't have one) attached to my inflator just before I left that place.

Apparently, that shop was never inspected by OSHA.

That's insane... but as I'm sure you know it was a different world back then. I've heard all kinds of horror stories.. specifically plumbing since that's my back ground. All the dangerous things we use to do to "get the job done"

 

[kennythewelder]

I have removed and installed tires in my driveway. Put the rim under the front tire of my truck, turn the wheel after the truck tire is sitting on top of the tire I want to remove from the rim. Slowly run over the bead with the truck, and there you go, tire bead is broke loose. Use 2 bug screwdrivers to work the bead around the rim. There is enough space inside of the rim to allow the tire to have enough slack so that you can walk it around the rim with the 2 screwdrivers. Once one side is loose, you can get the other side just like the first side. You can install the tires the same way with 2 screwdrivers and a big hammer. A little soapy water on the bead, and it can be done. Ive done it a bunch of times in the past. Of course we are talking a tire that has a side wall. Not those rubber band tires.