Budget headers

[Hipster]

You are exactly right, we have been through this down here in NZ, it has been pushed up many times over the last 6 years our current leaders have been in charge and it worked out exactly as you say. Only the tax man wins and that's why the government did it, it raises their revenue collection.

Here, It's boosts up the poverty level number as well. While it may get some off assistance, I've never seen any numbers on how many more can now qualify. Medicaid and assistance are handled at state levels. It's been a while since I looked at it, but many states already have laws on the books covering minimum wage increases over the next few years.

 

[Erik the Awful]

I'll probably catch hell for this but I think they should drop the minimum wage.

I agree that we shouldn't need a minimum wage if you've ever read Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath you'll understand how the rich can abuse a weak labor market to get the poor to accept wages that don't fulfill even basic survival needs.

There's fraudsters at all levels.

There's fraud, and then there's tax code that favors the rich. Let's not muddle the two together.

As a mechanic you never did a brake job or something in your driveway for cash and put the money directly in your pocket? But that's different, doesn't justify it. I would find it hard to believe you didn't hustle some cash jobs in your lifetime.

You're right, that doesn't excuse it. The difference is that if I were to claim those jobs on my taxes I'd only owe the government another twenty bucks. Most of the odd jobs I do, I do for free for friends and family. I could claim those as charitable contributions and negate any tax burden. I do not earn any significant part of my income with side jobs.

I'm trying very hard to keep politics out of this, so I won't mention parties, but a few elections back a significantly wealthy person ran for president and released his tax records. It was discovered he paid less than 10% of his earnings in taxes while his secretary was paying about about as much as the rest of us do. He lost that election, and the tax revelation was the reason. You can justify the double standard, but most of us see through it.

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

I'm trying very hard to keep politics out of this, so I won't mention parties, but a few elections back a significantly wealthy person ran for president and released his tax records. It was discovered he paid less than 10% of his earnings in taxes while his secretary was paying about about as much as the rest of us do. He lost that election, and the tax revelation was the reason. You can justify the double standard, but most of us see through it.

He lost because of a comment about binders (notebooks).

If I have money that I already paid taxes on, and then I invest it and it grows, what and how much should I be taxed on and when do I owe it? What if I lose money, how should that be treated? Is there a point at which we could kill the goose laying these golden eggs?

I'm not saying there aren't ridiculous loopholes in the code, cronyism, etc., or that the tax level is exactly right, but I think this issue has been used as propaganda to divide the population without being framed properly. Would you rather have some "inequality" that rewards taking on the risk of investment, or have everyone be equally poor?

 

[Scooterwrench]

He lost because of a comment about binders (notebooks).

If I have money that I already paid taxes on, and then I invest it and it grows, what and how much should I be taxed on and when do I owe it?

You should owe nothing,you have been taxed once already. Unfortunately that's not how it works. You get taxed over and over on that dollar until that dollar you made is now worth about 20(if that much) cents to you. Property taxes,sales,tax interest tax,capitol gains tax all taxed again off that first dollar that you paid tax on.
Then our government pi$$es away what they don't put in their own pockets.
I'm telling you folk,it's gonna get ugly.

OK back to my reloading bench.

 

[Erik the Awful]

I'm not saying there aren't ridiculous loopholes in the code, cronyism, etc., or that the tax level is exactly right, but I think this issue has been used as propaganda to divide the population without being framed properly. Would you rather have some "inequality" that rewards taking on the risk of investment, or have everyone be equally poor?

Whenever we try to fix the loopholes and cronyism, that same old class warfare whine is used to defend the status quo.

Personally, I'd be in favor of getting rid of most of the tax code and simply institute a tax when money is moved from any account to any other. Your boss pays you? Tax. You pay your bills? Tax. A Wall Street investor tries to time the market to make .001% on a ten million dollar transfer? Tax. You move money through two shell companies before moving it to the Bahamas? Tax, tax, tax. We'd see a pretty good dip in money laundering, and if nothing else, Uncle Sam would be clawing some of that back. We'd still have to have property tax to keep people from hoarding real estate, though.

At the end of the day, never forget that it's not your money. Your name isn't printed on it. It's Uncle Sam's money, and you're voluntarily participating in his scheme. If you don't like it you can invest in bartering, Bitcoin, Euros, or Botswanan Pula. Right now Uncle Sam's the best investment we have. We Americans take it for granted.

 

[Scooterwrench]

At the end of the day, never forget that it's not your money. Your name isn't printed on it. It's Uncle Sam's money, and you're voluntarily participating in his scheme. If you don't like it you can invest in bartering, Bitcoin, Euros, or Botswanan Pula. Right now Uncle Sam's the best investment we have. We Americans take it for granted.

It damn sure is my money boy and I worked damned hard to get it and I didn't volunteer to participate in Uncle Sam's scheme.(fraud) I volunteered to live in freedom and not be taxed to death for it.

 

[Erik the Awful]

You are free to move someplace where there is no law, so it can be said that you are participating voluntarily. Most of us aren't interested in moving to Antarctica, Somalia, or a Ted Kazinsky-style cabin.

I've been around the world, and I've seen how others live. I'm not happy to pay taxes, but I've seen what life looks like without good government. There are those who will say government can't do anything right, but you have to remember that the world is run by C students, and ours is less dysfunctional than most.

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

At the end of the day, never forget that it's not your money. Your name isn't printed on it. It's Uncle Sam's money.

This is totally false. Technically, they are Federal Reserve Notes and a liability of the Federal Reserve and an asset of the holder.

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

BTW, you have to be in the top 10% of income earners to pay an effective rate > 10%.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Erik the Awful]

Only if you ignore Social Security Tax, which could be its own discussion. Also, most of us pay state income taxes. Homeowners who aren't millionaire real estate investors with armies of lawyers also pay a significant amount in property tax. But sure, tell me that I'm getting off cheap because some millionaire paid a $100,000 tax bill. I know that ain't rain that's hitting my back.