1994 5.7 TBI installing Harmonic balancer, crankshaft balancer, vibration dampener etc

[scott2093]

When you pull the damper, take a dial indicator and rotate the crank to see if it's bent. That has happened before...

Was a bit concerned bout that.
To be a bit optimistic, the GM balancer isn't showing really near the movement at all unless I get at the right angle and see that rubber's uneveness waving in and out.. If I wasn't obsessing over this, it for sure would look perfect at a normal glance from above the bay......
I don't have any dial indicators or any gauges of the sort for that matter. Guess it's time to grab one.

I was coming on here to mention something odd.
After I installed the damper Saturday, I fired up the truck and went into town...Everything seemed fine...
Came home and parked in my driveway facing up. A couple/few hours later I went to pull it into the garage and had an usually long crank before it started. It's never done that...

Anyway, it's been in the garage since Saturday night, flat parked obviously, and I just went to start it up to back it out and I had another long crank before it fired up. Like 2.5 seconds...

not sure what that's about..
maybe I'll put a timing light on it...??

 

[scott2093]

jeez...
timing mark is 6 degrees advanced and bouncing back and forth maybe 1/16" or more?........
timing was locked at 0 degrees with old balancer....
of course with wire disconnected...engine warm
I surely would have noticed that difference when I compared the 2 before installing.....

The slight bouncing back and forth of the balancer timing mark is in lockstep with the engine strokes... Like I have one noisier lifter sound or exhaust tick and it's in time with that for example.......
I just went out to see if maybe the old timing sight on top of the cover was where the new balancer's mark would be but it's not......it's still moved a ways to driver's side from that....
I don't even know how to use that old timing sight...can't see anything////

man...did I not install this right? Possibly went to the key way but not in right spot? I just spun until it clicked into place.... Pretty sure I looked to make sure.....
idk... Taxes took most of my time this weekend or I would've explored this sooner and had this thing off by now.....

Guess I'm taking the Saturn to work....

 

[Schurkey]

timing mark is 6 degrees advanced and bouncing back and forth maybe 1/16" or more?........
timing was locked at 0 degrees with old balancer....
of course with wire disconnected...engine warm
I surely would have noticed that difference when I compared the 2 before installing.....

The slight bouncing back and forth of the balancer timing mark is in lockstep with the engine strokes... Like I have one noisier lifter sound or exhaust tick and it's in time with that for example...

If the timing mark is moving around, that can be caused by several things--worn distributor, failing ignition module, faulty wiring, faulty computer, loose timing chain, perhaps more.

I just went out to see if maybe the old timing sight on top of the cover was where the new balancer's mark would be but it's not......it's still moved a ways to driver's side from that....
I don't even know how to use that old timing sight...can't see anything////

Chevy has multiple damper designs, in diameter, in width, in tuning, in materials...and in timing mark location.

Did you buy a damper that has the timing mark in the proper location for the timing indicator you're using? I keep thinking that there's a 13-degree difference between two designs. There may or may not be more than two designs as far as the timing mark is concerned, but there's at least two.

My '88 K1500 5.7L has a timing mark that is nearly straight up when #1 is at TDC. The timing light has to shine almost straight down through a hole in the bigass stamped-steel plate that holds the accessories on the front of the engine--alternator, AC compressor, PS, belt tensioner, etc. The hole for the timing light is near the belt tensioner.

Other engines have the timing indicator moved further to the passenger side (by 13 degrees?)

If you've bought the wrong damper, the timing mark is going to be entirely wrong. Put the #1 cylinder at TDC and see whether the timing mark aligns with zero on the indicator.

Taxes took most of my time this weekend

Me too.

 

[scott2093]

If the timing mark is moving around, that can be caused by several things--worn distributor, failing ignition module, faulty wiring, faulty computer, loose timing chain, perhaps more.

It has been steady and even was as of a week or two ago when I last checked my timing. I'm sure something could have flaked since then but idk... will look into it...

Did you buy a damper that has the timing mark in the proper location for the timing indicator you're using?

I'm almost certain I compared the Dorman 594-002 I took off to this GM 6272222 and they were identical in where the mark was. Both are what my truck is supposed to have afaik....I have the timing indicator gauge that is installed on the timing cover on the driver's side more. I also have the one I believe you are saying your 88 has. A sight hole Right on the middle of the cover...or wherever it's mounted..I need to look....
the timing light with wire disconnected and engine warm shows it somewhere in between those 2 gauge's 0 degrees ,,, 6 degrees advanced on my gauge that's mounted more towards the driver's side....

Just getting home... I'll check where #1 tdc puts this balancer's mark as a start........

my motor is a crate engine so who knows ....

 

[scott2093]

Well this is embarrassing.... My timing was at 0 degrees. I looked at it wrong this morning..
I did think it was odd that I didn't have any pinging and the truck didn't feel like it was advanced when I drove it Saturday....doh

Still, the wavering back and forth in rhythm with the engine isn't usual and the long cranks are a new thing after installing this balancer....
Going to dig in after dinner....

 

[scott2093]

Took it out...
Not sure anything looks bad but I don't know what I should be looking for.
And yes, the GM damper is exactly the same as the Dorman..
Guess I went crazy on the right stuff...
Anything look obvious?
can't tell if that seal was leaking already...smeared some petroleum jelly on it before install...

also, is a variation of this brace setup ok to use with the install tool?

 

[Schurkey]

I'm not seeing traces of RTV Silicone on the keyway.

When #1 is at TDC, where is the timing mark?

 

[scott2093]

I'm not seeing traces of RTV Silicone on the keyway.

What's the keyway just so I'm understanding? I basically smeared rtv inside the balancer hub and pushed it on. You can see 1/32" layer inside the groove from the key shoveling it towards the front of the balancer as well as the ring/wall of sealant that was created towards the front of the balancer.

When #1 is at TDC, where is the timing mark?

I didn't check. I just remembered, at least I think I remember, that the timing light showed the 3rd notch in on the gauge which is 0 degrees. This morning I read it as a 6.
Was thinking too, if I were to find tdc, what would be the best method? Pulling the cap and watching the #1 valves? Obviously when number 1 intake is closed, I still am supposed to crank til the balancer mark comes to tdc which kinda defeats what I'm trying to do so watching the rotor til it gets to #1 then would be good?
Could watch number 5 exhaust peak as well?

I guess it would be nice to know how much gap is supposed to be from the balancer's hub lip to the oil seal/timing cover?

also, in the balancer's hub up where it goes into the timing cover, both my balancers have what appears to be a factory scribe or machining. I'm thinking maybe this is to aide in where it should come to rest?
Unfortunately I don't have a picture of this before it was installed. Added online pic to show this....

 

[scott2093]

It's called a Pin Spanner, or similar. The "big" problem will be finding one large enough. Most of 'em I saw were 1/3 the size you'd want.

This one seems pretty decent,beefy......I have cut up sections of chain link fence post I use as breakers for length if needed..... will try it out later when the Powerbond gets here

 

[scott2093]

The Powerbond damper seems more unstable than the GM one from Amazon. ..doesn't have that rubber flopping around but more vibration looking in general .Still looks tight with normal viewing... Maybe we're not supposed to watch in slow motion..lol

I'll take the truck to work tomorrow and see how it goes.
Curious about the long cranks which it hasn't done with this DAYCO yet......

What is the process for adding sealant to the keyway?

The old Dorman I removed had zero sealant and there was a bit of oil everywhere.
With the GM one I installed Saturday I smeared sealant on the inside of the balancer's hub leaving maybe an inch of the front alone. Then let it push sealant forward as it was being pressed on.
With this Dayco, I just pressed it on and then smeared sealant around the inside of the front of the hub making sure the keyway was sealed up and the snout edge...Obviously not getting any where it threads...

I need to look into my flexplate in the near future.... I hear a racket...seems like it's coming from that area..Not terrible but, If something is going on in there, I'd imagine it'll telegraph to the balancer.
Sucks because I fought the exhaust not too long ago and looked at the flexplate as best I could after removing the bellhousing cover and the bolts to the converter were tight..

hmm...