nineno
Newbie
Alright forum, it’s a rainy, miserable day here in central Virginia. I’ve got plenty of chores to get to, but first, here is a run-down and pictures of a couple of smaller projects on the truck (so far).
The surface rust on the cab floor cleaned up well with a cup brush on my trusty angle grinder.
I also scuffed the not-rusty areas with rather fine (350 grit, perhaps?) paper on my orbital/palm sander and a light touch. (I only did this so the new paint and/or primer would take to the floor.)
With no structural issues found, I primed and top-coated the entire cab floor, hoping to arrest the rust. (You can see where the rust was in the lower left corn of the picture, under the pedals and nearest the left front cab mount. If anyone cares, I can add a close-up of that sometime.) So far (2 years and counting) the rust hasn't restarted.
Eventually I’d like to add some damping ("sound deadening") material to the firewall, rear cab wall and door inners. I may not put the noise abating material on the floor because I don’t want to encourage the rust problem that I had to fix in the first place. Recommendations on which acoustic treatment materials are good and work well are much appreciated.
I wire brushed almost the entire frame with the bed off and inner fenders out. I’ll need to go back and address the section under the cab and some areas inside the channel of the frame after the truck can find its way to a lift under its own power. I primed the frame with the maroon-ish/brown Rust-Oleum bare metal primer (shown below). Eventually, I did topcoat the frame with semi-gloss black. I'll show that in a later post. The frame cleaned up extremely well.
I know Rust-Oleum is pretty mediocre in comparison to having a chassis e-coated, powder coated, or even epoxy primed and painted. I would have loved to have done any of those things, but it’s an $800 truck and I don’t have a great way to remove the cab from the frame. So, Rust-Oleum it is.
Unsurprisingly, the gas tank was filled with stale, nasty…ummm…“stuff.” Luckily, gas tanks aren't too expensive and readily available. I bought a bare sender/pick-up unit and added a Walbro fuel pump that will support more than 400hp. Spoiler alert: That’s more pump than I’ll need.
(I have a spare, new-in-box fuel tank as well. PM me if you’re interested.)
I cut off the OE fuel sender fittings and installed some -6AN fittings since I didn’t know exactly where I was going with the powertrain. I figured -6 was a pretty good universal option for anything I was considering.
Now, the topic that had generated the most buzz so far: I test-fit a couple of different engine/trans combos. One of the directions I really hoped to go was simply too difficult to make work. I’ve shared a picture (below), but I'll keep the details to a minimum since I am definitely not going this direction any longer.
A buddy that helped with this little experiment told me that I’d have to call the truck a Jagrolet or a Chevuar, if it had worked out.
So what the heck is going on in this picture?
The engine is a final generation (1994 - 1996.5) Jaguar V12. It has a displacement of 5998cc and is commonly known as the 6.0L variant.
The transmission that Jaguar used behind this engine was a rather unique version of the 4L80e. (Earlier Jaguar V12s used the 700R4.) In the 1990s Aston Martin and Rolls Royce used the same exact variant, as did a few other boutique manufacturers. (There is one attached to this engine in this picture. Trust me.)
Also in this picture you can see the driver side "diving board" engine mount I fabbed-up, trying to make this work. I got very close. The hurdles I couldn't clear (cost effectively or in a reasonable amount of time) were the engine mounts and (likely) exhaust routing. An add-on engine cradle directly above the steering box ports, across to the passenger side and some creative headers probably would have gotten me there. Ultimately, I decided it was better to keep the truck project moving forward and find a different home for this engine.
Now, before I move on, most of you are probably thinking: "That's idiotic. Why would he even try to do that?" Totally fair assessment, and question. The best explanation that I can offer is below:
I've been messing around with the 6.0L variant of Jaguar V12 for many years. Everyone but Jaguar guys (and me - I'm not really a Jag guy) dismiss them as pure garbage. Yes, all Jaguar V12s have some issues, but the 6.0L motors were fairly well sorted out. The problematic areas that remain can be addressed rather easily with modern engine technology and components.
The distributors were always problematic, across every version of Jag V12. The last couple of years the V12s were built with distributorless ignitions which eliminated this problem. Two 6-pack coils (the same coils used in the Ford EDIS-6 system) sit in between the cylinder banks. Love or hate Ford, the EDIS family of ignition was pretty bulletproof. This engine (a 1994 originally built with a distributor) has been upgraded to distributorless system.
The ECUs/PCMs were also woefully inadequate. Jaguar did some really strange things in order to control 12 cylinders and manage emissions with very basic ECUs. With a modern aftermarket ECU (that can handle 12 cylinders) and without having to worry too much about emissions, nearly all of those demons can be addressed. If anyone is really dying to know more about this, I can go into a lot of detail, but we should probably keep it off of a Chevy truck forum!
Of course, no conversation on British cars would be complete without discussing Lucas Electronics. Yes, they suck. But all of that has been stripped off of this engine, so it's no longer an issue. Everything has been or will be replaced with modern, high-quality wire, connectors, sheathing, etc.
Another criticism heaped upon the Jaguar V12 is it's lack of power. Well, the 6.0L variants made 300-330hp with extremely flat torque curves. That's weak by contemporary standards, but that's remarkably well aligned with "high performance" engines of similar displacement in the early to mid-90s. (A 1995 Chevy 5.7L LT1 made 300hp in a Vette...) The other detail frequently cited is that the Jag V12 is huge, and heavy. Both of those assertions are true. The water pump pulley would sit less than 2-inches behind the radiator in the C1500. The engine is LONG, and yes, it is heavy. The combined engine and transmission weigh about 900lbs, depending on the level of dress. Of course, a 1995 454 weighs around 700lbs, alone. A 4L80e takes that combination well over 1000lbs. A 1995 454 also made about 250hp and under 400lb-ft. So the sad old V12 doesn't look so sad, by some comparisons. (ha-ha)
Before any of the more sensitive visitors get too worked up: Yes, we all know that mid-90s powertrains were neutered for many reasons, and that when un-corked they're capable of far greater output.
The final - and not trivial - reason I gave this a shot is because V12s sound glorious. No, the Jag V12 doesn't sound like the small-displacement, high-reving Lamborghini or Ferrari 12 cylinders, but it still sounds mighty fine with a set of pipes on it. Here's a pretty good example:
Clearly I have an affinity for this family of engine. But why put it in a Chevy truck? Well, because everyone else swaps GM V8s into Jaguars that were built with V12s. I thought it'd be fun to reverse the process and put a Jag V12 in a GM. Some automotive irony, if you will.
To take that a bit further, it was some good old fashioned hot rodding - stuffing some parts together that were never intended to go together, just to see what would happen. There were a lot of interesting problems to solve along the way (some of which I'll touch on later, because they're still a part of the project), and the result - if I had pulled it off - would have been extremely unique. (And yes, it's fair if you want to add "...and stupid" to the last sentence.)
As I've noted several times before, this is an $800 truck. It was rusting away in a field in rural southwest Virginia before I bought it. I knew trying to stuff the Jag motor in it was unlikely to work, but I gave it a shot. The end result is that the old c1500 has lived a few more years.
To close this topic out: If anyone has a good lead on a mid-1970s Jaguar XJ12c (Jaguars short-lived attempt at a muscle-/sports-car) or Race Car
Replicas XJ13 reproduction, let me know!
- Leland Touring Car XJ12C: https://www.motorsportretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/1976-Jaguar-XJ12C-Broadspeed-10.jpg
- RCR XJ13: https://race-car-replicas.com/rcr-xj13
Alright. Time to get to some chores. I have to track down a few more pictures and then I'll post some of the other smaller projects I've pursued over the past few years.
Thanks for all the commentary, support and questions so far.
The surface rust on the cab floor cleaned up well with a cup brush on my trusty angle grinder.
I also scuffed the not-rusty areas with rather fine (350 grit, perhaps?) paper on my orbital/palm sander and a light touch. (I only did this so the new paint and/or primer would take to the floor.)
With no structural issues found, I primed and top-coated the entire cab floor, hoping to arrest the rust. (You can see where the rust was in the lower left corn of the picture, under the pedals and nearest the left front cab mount. If anyone cares, I can add a close-up of that sometime.) So far (2 years and counting) the rust hasn't restarted.
You must be registered for see images attach
Eventually I’d like to add some damping ("sound deadening") material to the firewall, rear cab wall and door inners. I may not put the noise abating material on the floor because I don’t want to encourage the rust problem that I had to fix in the first place. Recommendations on which acoustic treatment materials are good and work well are much appreciated.
I wire brushed almost the entire frame with the bed off and inner fenders out. I’ll need to go back and address the section under the cab and some areas inside the channel of the frame after the truck can find its way to a lift under its own power. I primed the frame with the maroon-ish/brown Rust-Oleum bare metal primer (shown below). Eventually, I did topcoat the frame with semi-gloss black. I'll show that in a later post. The frame cleaned up extremely well.
I know Rust-Oleum is pretty mediocre in comparison to having a chassis e-coated, powder coated, or even epoxy primed and painted. I would have loved to have done any of those things, but it’s an $800 truck and I don’t have a great way to remove the cab from the frame. So, Rust-Oleum it is.
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
Unsurprisingly, the gas tank was filled with stale, nasty…ummm…“stuff.” Luckily, gas tanks aren't too expensive and readily available. I bought a bare sender/pick-up unit and added a Walbro fuel pump that will support more than 400hp. Spoiler alert: That’s more pump than I’ll need.
(I have a spare, new-in-box fuel tank as well. PM me if you’re interested.)
I cut off the OE fuel sender fittings and installed some -6AN fittings since I didn’t know exactly where I was going with the powertrain. I figured -6 was a pretty good universal option for anything I was considering.
You must be registered for see images attach
Now, the topic that had generated the most buzz so far: I test-fit a couple of different engine/trans combos. One of the directions I really hoped to go was simply too difficult to make work. I’ve shared a picture (below), but I'll keep the details to a minimum since I am definitely not going this direction any longer.
You must be registered for see images attach
A buddy that helped with this little experiment told me that I’d have to call the truck a Jagrolet or a Chevuar, if it had worked out.
So what the heck is going on in this picture?
The engine is a final generation (1994 - 1996.5) Jaguar V12. It has a displacement of 5998cc and is commonly known as the 6.0L variant.
The transmission that Jaguar used behind this engine was a rather unique version of the 4L80e. (Earlier Jaguar V12s used the 700R4.) In the 1990s Aston Martin and Rolls Royce used the same exact variant, as did a few other boutique manufacturers. (There is one attached to this engine in this picture. Trust me.)
Also in this picture you can see the driver side "diving board" engine mount I fabbed-up, trying to make this work. I got very close. The hurdles I couldn't clear (cost effectively or in a reasonable amount of time) were the engine mounts and (likely) exhaust routing. An add-on engine cradle directly above the steering box ports, across to the passenger side and some creative headers probably would have gotten me there. Ultimately, I decided it was better to keep the truck project moving forward and find a different home for this engine.
Now, before I move on, most of you are probably thinking: "That's idiotic. Why would he even try to do that?" Totally fair assessment, and question. The best explanation that I can offer is below:
I've been messing around with the 6.0L variant of Jaguar V12 for many years. Everyone but Jaguar guys (and me - I'm not really a Jag guy) dismiss them as pure garbage. Yes, all Jaguar V12s have some issues, but the 6.0L motors were fairly well sorted out. The problematic areas that remain can be addressed rather easily with modern engine technology and components.
The distributors were always problematic, across every version of Jag V12. The last couple of years the V12s were built with distributorless ignitions which eliminated this problem. Two 6-pack coils (the same coils used in the Ford EDIS-6 system) sit in between the cylinder banks. Love or hate Ford, the EDIS family of ignition was pretty bulletproof. This engine (a 1994 originally built with a distributor) has been upgraded to distributorless system.
The ECUs/PCMs were also woefully inadequate. Jaguar did some really strange things in order to control 12 cylinders and manage emissions with very basic ECUs. With a modern aftermarket ECU (that can handle 12 cylinders) and without having to worry too much about emissions, nearly all of those demons can be addressed. If anyone is really dying to know more about this, I can go into a lot of detail, but we should probably keep it off of a Chevy truck forum!
Of course, no conversation on British cars would be complete without discussing Lucas Electronics. Yes, they suck. But all of that has been stripped off of this engine, so it's no longer an issue. Everything has been or will be replaced with modern, high-quality wire, connectors, sheathing, etc.
Another criticism heaped upon the Jaguar V12 is it's lack of power. Well, the 6.0L variants made 300-330hp with extremely flat torque curves. That's weak by contemporary standards, but that's remarkably well aligned with "high performance" engines of similar displacement in the early to mid-90s. (A 1995 Chevy 5.7L LT1 made 300hp in a Vette...) The other detail frequently cited is that the Jag V12 is huge, and heavy. Both of those assertions are true. The water pump pulley would sit less than 2-inches behind the radiator in the C1500. The engine is LONG, and yes, it is heavy. The combined engine and transmission weigh about 900lbs, depending on the level of dress. Of course, a 1995 454 weighs around 700lbs, alone. A 4L80e takes that combination well over 1000lbs. A 1995 454 also made about 250hp and under 400lb-ft. So the sad old V12 doesn't look so sad, by some comparisons. (ha-ha)
Before any of the more sensitive visitors get too worked up: Yes, we all know that mid-90s powertrains were neutered for many reasons, and that when un-corked they're capable of far greater output.
The final - and not trivial - reason I gave this a shot is because V12s sound glorious. No, the Jag V12 doesn't sound like the small-displacement, high-reving Lamborghini or Ferrari 12 cylinders, but it still sounds mighty fine with a set of pipes on it. Here's a pretty good example:
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Clearly I have an affinity for this family of engine. But why put it in a Chevy truck? Well, because everyone else swaps GM V8s into Jaguars that were built with V12s. I thought it'd be fun to reverse the process and put a Jag V12 in a GM. Some automotive irony, if you will.
To take that a bit further, it was some good old fashioned hot rodding - stuffing some parts together that were never intended to go together, just to see what would happen. There were a lot of interesting problems to solve along the way (some of which I'll touch on later, because they're still a part of the project), and the result - if I had pulled it off - would have been extremely unique. (And yes, it's fair if you want to add "...and stupid" to the last sentence.)
As I've noted several times before, this is an $800 truck. It was rusting away in a field in rural southwest Virginia before I bought it. I knew trying to stuff the Jag motor in it was unlikely to work, but I gave it a shot. The end result is that the old c1500 has lived a few more years.
To close this topic out: If anyone has a good lead on a mid-1970s Jaguar XJ12c (Jaguars short-lived attempt at a muscle-/sports-car) or Race Car
Replicas XJ13 reproduction, let me know!
- Leland Touring Car XJ12C: https://www.motorsportretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/1976-Jaguar-XJ12C-Broadspeed-10.jpg
- RCR XJ13: https://race-car-replicas.com/rcr-xj13
Alright. Time to get to some chores. I have to track down a few more pictures and then I'll post some of the other smaller projects I've pursued over the past few years.
Thanks for all the commentary, support and questions so far.
