Steering feels light after gear box replacement

[0xDEADBEEF]

Other way around. Toe in makes them darty,more responsive. Toe out makes them unresponsive,sluggish pigs.

Nope.

 

[Scooterwrench]

Nope.

Try it,you'll find out!

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

Try it,you'll find out!

I have, many times. Toe out is only for the track.

 

[Kens1990K2500]

FWIW.........I replaced my original gearbox a few months ago with a Bluetop gearbox. I noticed that it steered easier than before but I like it and it has no play in it. 1993 GMC standard cab long bed. Also, the power steering g pump had been replaced a few years earlier.

No play, AND easier steering ... nice! My 1990 K2500 has pretty heavy steering (and it has been professionally aligned). I just replaced the rag joint, which eliminated about 65-70 percent of the slop.

I rebuilt my front suspension this fall. Only part I didn't replace was Pitman arm, which has some play. It might be worth replacing the steering box at the same time I do the Pitman arm. How much did yours cost you?

I'd also like to ditch my aftermarket, rebuilt power steering pump. It is slightly whiny (fluid is not low). Maybe get an OEM one from a junkyard.

 

[Erik the Awful]

Toe-in causes understeer and stability, which is why most manufacturers specs are slightly toed-in.

Toe-out causes oversteer and instability, which helps with turn-in, but makes the car feel squirrely.

 

[Scooterwrench]

Manufacturers dial in toe in to compensate for the rolling resistance of the tires which tends to pull the wheels outward. A front end with 1/16"-1/8" toe in will actually be straight up once the vehicle is moving. Lets say you dial in 3/4" toe in,your wheels will already be X# of deg. into a turn while going straight down the road. Now you make a turn adding more deg. to the already turned in wheel and the body rolls over and shifts the weight onto the outside tire,unloads the inside tire and the vehicle shoots to the direction of the turn when there is enough weight taken off the inside tire. The higher the CG of the vehicle,the more darty it is. A recent example was my brothers Freightliner. He had new steer tires put on it and the front end aligned and it was shooting into the direction of a turn. We checked it with a tape measure and they had turned almost a full inch of toe in into the front end. We kept turning the wheels out until it drove nice at 1/4"

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

Manufacturers dial in toe in to compensate for the rolling resistance of the tires which tends to pull the wheels outward. A front end with 1/16"-1/8" toe in will actually be straight up once the vehicle is moving. Lets say you dial in 3/4" toe in,your wheels will already be X# of deg. into a turn while going straight down the road. Now you make a turn adding more deg. to the already turned in wheel and the body rolls over and shifts the weight onto the outside tire,unloads the inside tire and the vehicle shoots to the direction of the turn when there is enough weight taken off the inside tire. The higher the CG of the vehicle,the more darty it is. A recent example was my brothers Freightliner. He had new steer tires put on it and the front end aligned and it was shooting into the direction of a turn. We checked it with a tape measure and they had turned almost a full inch of toe in into the front end. We kept turning the wheels out until it drove nice at 1/4"

I can see that. Everything is relative. It's still toe in, just not stupid extreme toe in.

 

[Erik the Awful]

There are exceptions to the rule, and it sounds like your brother's Freightliner is one, or the toe-in was just way too extreme.

Back in the day more toe-in was used because the suspensions were loose enough that the front tires straightened out at speed. When you slowed down for a turn the wheels returned back to toed-in and understeered to make it more controllable. Today's rack-and-pinion MacPherson front suspensions require less toe-in.

If loading or unloading the suspension are causing toe changes, you have a problem in your Ackerman angle or your tie rod angle. Simplistically, draw a line from your kingpin to the center of your rear end. That line should intersect the outer tie rod joint (if the tie rod is in front of the axle, measure where it would be if flipped behind the axle). If your Ackerman is off, you will get dartiness and bumpsteer. Your tie rod should also be parallel to the control arm. If it's significantly off-parallel it can cause the same problems.

[storytime]
My team's first race car was a lowered MR2. Our team captain was trying to improve the handling and read how lowering the car would cause bumpsteer, so he ordered a tie rod flip kit. Instead of mounting the tie rod end to the bottom of the spindle, the kit moved the mount to the top to keep it parallel. For some reason, the kit he bought made it worse. At the start of test-n-tune day we had a semi-pro driver in the car, and he hit a bump on the front straight at Eagle's Canyon. The car bumpsteered a full foot to one side, and he immediately slowed until he could get it in the pits. We jacked the car and everything looked good, but a friend on another team noticed massive tow change as we were jacking it (cue Beavis and Butthead laugh). The tie rod flip was causing the massive toe change and bumpsteer.

The flip kit required drilling the tie rod end taper into the top of the spindle and installing a bushing to neck it back down to the right size, so there was no way to un-modify the spindles. Fortunately we had a spare set of stock spindles, but they still had the brake backing plate. I asked my team captain about removing the plates and he said we'd need a press to split the bearing off the spindle so we could get them off. I installed them as is. We ran the rest of test-n-tune and the car steered great, problem solved.

The next morning I started in the car and did a full stint with no issues. The team captain got in the car and drove for about an hour, then called in. "I think the brakes are going out."

I answered "Bring it in and I'll check them."

"Never mind, I think they're fine... OH CRAP I HAVE NO BRAKES!"

I started getting tools lined up and after a minute heard him coming into the paddock spot.

The brakes were on fire with blue-green flame coming out of the wheel, and our fire extinguisher was up on the hot pits. That friend from another team? I stole his fire extinguisher. It's a b!+ch trying to put out a brake fluid fire on a lowered car. Fortunately we'd cut out some of the inner fender, and I was able to pop the frunk (MR2, engine in back) and extinguish the fire from the back side.

The brake shields had trapped heat in the rotors and we ate through a brand new set of race pads in about three hours of track time. You couldn't hear the brakes grinding, so it also ate through the backing plate, and about 1/4" of the piston itself, until it came loose enough to lose the brake fluid. The flashpoint of brake fluid is over 900°, and the rotors were there.

My team captain was stressing over how we were going to remove the shields without a press, and in the meantime I grabbed a hammer, a chisel, and some channel locks. In about thirty seconds they were gone. We threw on another pair of used calipers and a set of O'Reillys cheapest brake pads and ran the entire rest of the race with no issues.

 

[Scooterwrench]

Yes his truck had extreme toe in but that doesn't change the fact that toe in makes the front end twitchy. Ackerman steering is another term for toe out in turns. The inner wheel follows a tighter radius than the outer wheel during a turn so the alignment toes out during the turn.
Rather than spout what you've read or what you think you know go out there and change the toe on your vehicle and see how it reacts. I guaranty you won't like it if you get the front end toed in too much.
This discussion wasn't about low CG race cars and rack and pinion steering,it was about 4000lb+ trucks that are driven daily on the highway. Pretty much apples to oranges!!!!

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

It works the same on lifted Jeeps with 37" mud tires. Toe in makes the front slow and resist turning, toe out makes the front fast and darty.