884x4310ci
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Back in the day they used 400 cranks and had to machine them down.
But now you get 383 cranks that have 350 mains.
Okay, I took your advice so far now I need more if ya don't mind...
- Thread starter Daniel Brown
- Start date
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But now you get 383 cranks that have 350 mains.
skylark
I'm Awesome
I ran that same cam in a 2wd that was tuned by another company, westers if I remember correctly. I drank the koolaid from a "fast" guy from another forum whom I'm sure that you have heard of. I don't have a desire to mention more details on him. I can't let anyone recommend that cam with a clear conscience.
L31MaxExpress
I'm Awesome
Don't know what to tell you man.
I have seen plenty of LT1 F/Y cars put down right at 300 ft/lbs of torque at the tires from 2,500 to over 4,000 rpm and make 260-270 RWHP in the process. A bone stock engine dyno of a LT1 showed 313 FWHP and 350 RWTQ. With a few air flow enhancements and 1 3/4" primary long tubes the HP climbed to 350 and torque to 380 on an internally stock LT1. The LT1 was a true 10.5:1 compression. On a small block chevy the difference in power between 9.5:1 and 10.5:1 is roughly 4%. The stock Vortec cam will not come even close to making 350 HP where the LT1 cam easily does it.
I guess the Lunati Bare Bones version of the Hotcam that I setup in my coworkers 6" lifted Yukon on 35s last year was a waste of effort too! That engine pulled very strongly with a ~2,400 rpm stall converter and 5.13 gears. Riding in that truck it was pulling harder at 2,500-3,000 rpm than the factory Vortec ever thought about pulling anywhere and ran best shifting at 5,500 rpm. 3,500+ at WOT the truck screamed, but even at lighter throttle and lower rpm it was still super responsive.
Daniel Brown
Newbie
Now I even have more to consider 
. I was thinking about a GM long block I could buy for less than $2000.00 then toss a cam in it. I was hoping to find something that in time I could build slowly as I can afford it. I wouldn't buy from a seller that didn't offer quality engines. Most of what I looked at had at least a 1 yr warranty. I am not stuck one any one brand of engine, the Jegs engine would be awesome but I can't afford that at the moment. So with one of the cams mentioned and the exhaust system I had mentioned earlier, shouldn't I be able to get around 300hp and decent torque?
. I was thinking about a GM long block I could buy for less than $2000.00 then toss a cam in it. I was hoping to find something that in time I could build slowly as I can afford it. I wouldn't buy from a seller that didn't offer quality engines. Most of what I looked at had at least a 1 yr warranty. I am not stuck one any one brand of engine, the Jegs engine would be awesome but I can't afford that at the moment. So with one of the cams mentioned and the exhaust system I had mentioned earlier, shouldn't I be able to get around 300hp and decent torque?
L31MaxExpress
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To further improve what I was saying.
1st dyno Stock dual cat LT1/4L60E F-car.
2nd dyno was a fresh but bone stock F-car LT1 with a fresh set of plugs and plug wires on an engine dyno.
3rd dyno is a stock L31 long block with a LT4 cam and factory stamped steel rockers. Using a TBI setup, shorty headers and a single 3" exhaust. Still spinning a clutch fan.
Final dyno is a 1 ton SRW 350 Vortec. The 10.5" rear and 4L80E eat a touch more power than a 4L60E/10.5 but we are talking maybe 5% at most. Most stock Vortec 350s dyno in the 180-200 HP range.
My L31 powered Express conversion van has been down the 1/4 a few times.
With a very low mileage Goodwrench 350 Vortec for a 8,800 gvw application, stock tune, stock rebuilt 4L60E with 65E guts and a stock 1,600 rpm converter and G80 3.42s it pulled its 6,200 lbs down the track at 17.8 @ 78 mph. With a tuned PCM, Summit branded shorty headers with EGR deleted it went 17.3 @ 80 mph. I put the 96 LT4 cam, 1.6 roller rockers, and a S10 converter in it. 16.3 @ 84 mph. I then swapped the cam to a 206/210 Comp XE 4x4 ground on a 110 LSA. Picked up a little torque in the 1,500-2,500 rpm range but my 1/4 mile passed in 16.5 @ 82 and the engine absolutely died at 5,000 rpm. WOT passing on 2 lane roads sucked not having the top-end power I had.
1st dyno Stock dual cat LT1/4L60E F-car.
2nd dyno was a fresh but bone stock F-car LT1 with a fresh set of plugs and plug wires on an engine dyno.
3rd dyno is a stock L31 long block with a LT4 cam and factory stamped steel rockers. Using a TBI setup, shorty headers and a single 3" exhaust. Still spinning a clutch fan.
Final dyno is a 1 ton SRW 350 Vortec. The 10.5" rear and 4L80E eat a touch more power than a 4L60E/10.5 but we are talking maybe 5% at most. Most stock Vortec 350s dyno in the 180-200 HP range.
My L31 powered Express conversion van has been down the 1/4 a few times.
With a very low mileage Goodwrench 350 Vortec for a 8,800 gvw application, stock tune, stock rebuilt 4L60E with 65E guts and a stock 1,600 rpm converter and G80 3.42s it pulled its 6,200 lbs down the track at 17.8 @ 78 mph. With a tuned PCM, Summit branded shorty headers with EGR deleted it went 17.3 @ 80 mph. I put the 96 LT4 cam, 1.6 roller rockers, and a S10 converter in it. 16.3 @ 84 mph. I then swapped the cam to a 206/210 Comp XE 4x4 ground on a 110 LSA. Picked up a little torque in the 1,500-2,500 rpm range but my 1/4 mile passed in 16.5 @ 82 and the engine absolutely died at 5,000 rpm. WOT passing on 2 lane roads sucked not having the top-end power I had.
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L31MaxExpress
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I will alsp add to above. The LT1/LT4 cam with S10 converter setup drives like a stock truck until you hammer on it. Light pressure on the throttle accelerates the truck really well without turning alot of RPM and fuel mileage was still as good as it ever was.
This was about 10-15% throttle on the Suburban just cruising around. This was with the stock exhaust, stock exhaust manifolds and stock air intake at the time so it was factory quiet too.
With the E10 fuel, wideband pegged on 12.6:1, the LT1 cam, 1.6 rocker, ported intake base, long tube headers and 2.25" dual exhaust was as much engine as the stock spider was capable of feeding at stock fuel pressure. That setup pulled about 280 gms/sec of airflow and that increased to 295 gms/sec with the Volant CAI. With the Volant CAI I was seeing 104-106% duty cycle at 5,500 rpm. Air/fuel ratio was still in the mid 12s at higher RPM so I never lost any sleep over it. At that point the Suburban ran a 9.2 @ 74 mph 1/8 mile and right at 6 seconds 0-60. Brake stalled to 2,700 rpm on P275/60R15s at 24 psi on a well prep'd track. 60' time was a best of 2.04s. I had a couple of guys looking for nitrous on it when we ran it in the 1/8 after it beat the guys stock regular cab Hemi Ram.
This video was on an uphill entrance ramp. Look at the 0-60 time from a 2,500 rpm brake stall. One can easily see it was under 7 seconds going uphill from 40 mph and beyond. 0-40 was under 4 seconds. The pop/snap upshifting into 2nd gear is extra torque management I added to the tune. 40% torque reduction at 300+ ft/lbs for 4/10ths of a second in an effort to keep a POS 4L60E in the truck.
This was about 10-15% throttle on the Suburban just cruising around. This was with the stock exhaust, stock exhaust manifolds and stock air intake at the time so it was factory quiet too.
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With the E10 fuel, wideband pegged on 12.6:1, the LT1 cam, 1.6 rocker, ported intake base, long tube headers and 2.25" dual exhaust was as much engine as the stock spider was capable of feeding at stock fuel pressure. That setup pulled about 280 gms/sec of airflow and that increased to 295 gms/sec with the Volant CAI. With the Volant CAI I was seeing 104-106% duty cycle at 5,500 rpm. Air/fuel ratio was still in the mid 12s at higher RPM so I never lost any sleep over it. At that point the Suburban ran a 9.2 @ 74 mph 1/8 mile and right at 6 seconds 0-60. Brake stalled to 2,700 rpm on P275/60R15s at 24 psi on a well prep'd track. 60' time was a best of 2.04s. I had a couple of guys looking for nitrous on it when we ran it in the 1/8 after it beat the guys stock regular cab Hemi Ram.
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This video was on an uphill entrance ramp. Look at the 0-60 time from a 2,500 rpm brake stall. One can easily see it was under 7 seconds going uphill from 40 mph and beyond. 0-40 was under 4 seconds. The pop/snap upshifting into 2nd gear is extra torque management I added to the tune. 40% torque reduction at 300+ ft/lbs for 4/10ths of a second in an effort to keep a POS 4L60E in the truck.
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skylark
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I will say once again that my experience with the LT4 was less than stellar. I drank the koolaid and believed in the dyno graphs. I'd never run another one. If you had an "expert" tuner that worked voodoo on you pcm then that was great for you. The rest of us have to deal with tuners that don't wear bones and dance around a fire to get results. In these instances that cam wasn't worth the money, time and effort.
L31MaxExpress
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I guess we can agree to disagree. I feel the same way about the '395 cam you hyped up in one of your posts. I needed a roller cam to replace the cast core comp cam that had failed in the Express and picked up a '395 cam because it was cheap. Even with 1.7:1 rockers and 2.02/1.60 valves it was a dog. Through a mistake it was run with stock vortec springs on .050" offset keepers at a very low seat pressure and open spring pressure. I still have the chart for that gutless wonder. Even after I got a set of Comp 787 retainers and LS6 springs in the mix it was very dissapointing. It made peak power at 4,700 rpm and had no higher rpm power at all. It was also very detonation prone on 93 octane. On 93 I managed a whole whopping ~250 rwhp. I had so little timing in it that I decided to run E85 to get a decent timing curve into the tune to extract all the power it was capable of. It still only made 270 rwhp. The '151 357 hp SPO cam with 1.6 rockers ran circles around it anywhere above 2,500 rpm. With the 151 cam, 9.6:1 static compression, and 0.041" quench I was able to run a very aggressive timing curve. 12° of timing at 1,200 rpm, 16° by 1,600 rpm, 20° by 2,000 rpm, 26° by 2,400 rpm, 30° by 3,600 rpm and 32° by 4,000 on 87 octane with ZERO detonation which is exactly the same timing curve I ran with the 96 LT4 cam. Having to run 6-8° less timing with the smaller cam to keep from detonating under load is counter productive to making torque. Having to run premium fuel with that cam and at an essentially stock compression ratio was shooting myself in the foot.
Here is the chart before I put better springs in it. The only real change the springs did was slightly raise and mooth up the curve and flatten the curve from 4,400-5,000 rpm substantially. It still hit a brick wall at 5,200 rpm.
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L31MaxExpress
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This was the typical 395' cam datalog screenshot. With no more than 24-26° of timing it would often knock and retard the timing. Even running it slightly rich to try to cool the pistons and running it cool at less than 180°F did not seem to matter. DCR was too high for the 93 octane and load encountered.
I also just happened to notice something really interesting. Noticed that the torque model in the 0411 must be pretty damn accurate. I log it for torque management reasons. Never had both of these screen shots open so close apart. At 5,100 rpm the modeled torque is 299 ft/lbs. That is 290 HP. 290 hp at 25% loss (4L85E/9.5" 14-bolt) is 217 rwhp. Dyno is showing ~220 hp.
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I also just happened to notice something really interesting. Noticed that the torque model in the 0411 must be pretty damn accurate. I log it for torque management reasons. Never had both of these screen shots open so close apart. At 5,100 rpm the modeled torque is 299 ft/lbs. That is 290 HP. 290 hp at 25% loss (4L85E/9.5" 14-bolt) is 217 rwhp. Dyno is showing ~220 hp.
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89GMCJOHN
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Just for a civil discussion how is Chevrolet able to get advertised
345 HP @5000 RPM 396 LB/FT @3600 RPM out of the 395 marine cam, with STOCK vortecs, with LESS lift and only 9:4 compression than someone utilizing 1.7 rockers, larger 2.02 valves, better springs yada yada ....... the poster says 250 hp at the wheels which would be 300 at the crank using the standard 20% driveline losses...so 45 horsepower is still being lost somewhere in that "better" setup....detonation prone also says something is wrong somewhere......Im running a 10:1 marine cammed 360 with "305" TBI swirls, iron exhaust manifolds, a 160 stat , medium springs in my distributor and a carb and have no pinging at all ????
Hot Rod magazine threw one on the dyno "With an electric water pump and 1-3/4-inch-primary dyno headers and Flowmaster mufflers, the RamJet delivered better-than-advertised peaks of 413 lb-ft at 4,100 rpm and 364 hp at 5,000. Add power accessories, and that means GM’s numbers are about right on. Better yet, the torque curve is very flat, hovering close to the 400 mark from 2,500 rpm all the way to the horsepower peak." FWIW
345 HP @5000 RPM 396 LB/FT @3600 RPM out of the 395 marine cam, with STOCK vortecs, with LESS lift and only 9:4 compression than someone utilizing 1.7 rockers, larger 2.02 valves, better springs yada yada ....... the poster says 250 hp at the wheels which would be 300 at the crank using the standard 20% driveline losses...so 45 horsepower is still being lost somewhere in that "better" setup....detonation prone also says something is wrong somewhere......Im running a 10:1 marine cammed 360 with "305" TBI swirls, iron exhaust manifolds, a 160 stat , medium springs in my distributor and a carb and have no pinging at all ????
Hot Rod magazine threw one on the dyno "With an electric water pump and 1-3/4-inch-primary dyno headers and Flowmaster mufflers, the RamJet delivered better-than-advertised peaks of 413 lb-ft at 4,100 rpm and 364 hp at 5,000. Add power accessories, and that means GM’s numbers are about right on. Better yet, the torque curve is very flat, hovering close to the 400 mark from 2,500 rpm all the way to the horsepower peak." FWIW
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