OBD1 ABS Power Brake Bleed - Kelsey Hayes 4wal - Snap-on MT2500

[18WheeledDemon]

Not correct. Late 94 , and 95 are the transition years. OBD 1 ended with 95. EPA regulation mandated OBD 2 beginning with 96 year. On my scanner kit, I have rectangle OBD 1 plug . And a tapered OBD 2 shaped plug that is marked OBD1 works on the 95. And a another OBD 2 plug , marked OBD2 works for 98 Tahoe. And it's confusing, at the beginning the 93 had no problems being scanned. But when I got the 95 from parents, I was ready to pull my hair out. Re read everything in the 95 manual diagnostics then became more clear, but was still poor decision on GM part.
I'm going to invest in a Tech 2. I have a 93 and 91 so it's worth it. Good luck.

I'm not sure where you got that OBD transition information from but nonetheless, I am NOT here to argue with anyone. What I can confirm & verify: this 95 DOES NOT have a ODB2 diagnostic port NOR is the system software in the ECM OBD2. It is ALL OBD1. The diagnostic port is square and I cannot get any OBD2 plug to fit without an adapter. Additionally I will advise EVERYONE NOT TO WASTE YOUR MONEY on a Innova Tech Plus 5512. This scanner is available at mostly all auto part stores. It comes with many adapter plugs and makes many claims including: OBD1 COMPATIBILITY & ABS BRAKE BLEED. ALL LIES. It will scan for trouble codes... sorta, (very limited), however it gives no additional functions. It will not read out engine status like current RPM's, whether or not the engine is running rich, etc. The MT2500 however does. The MT2500 reads out LIVE DATA. This was the biggest waste of money (for me). At the time of purchase it was $600 new at Advance Auto. I will not say this unit it totally useless because it absolutely will do most things for OBD2 including electronic brake bleed. That I've already confirmed with other jobs I've done on other's vehicles. Link for the Innova 5512: https://www.innova.com/products/fixassist-5512

 

[18WheeledDemon]

Try it with the non programmable in the first slot and leave the second slot empty.

Did that, which makes things worse in the manner of limitation. Without both carts, not only do the menu's change but the functions available severely decrease as well.

 

[18WheeledDemon]

This is the first time a took a solid picture of my diagnostic port and I just caught something... bent pins. This may very well be the reason there is no communication from the ABS Unit without using the Multi-1 Green & Black wires. I'll be checking that out tomorrow.

 

[18WheeledDemon]

Update: Not Good

I hope everyone had a fattening Thanksgiving.

Turns out the pins are not bent, camera's sure do like making things appear different than what they truly are. The darkened pins are actually vacant pin holes, nothing there. No corrosion found within populated pin holes. I have to say: I'm very disappointed with the Snap-on MT2500. Swapped eproms and installed the GM one, it made absolutely ZERO difference. In fact, you'd never even know the eprom was replaced. There's no added features nor did I see any removed. Absolutely cannot get the MT2500 to communicate without the Multi-1 Green & Black wires. ABS scan did reveal a code however this "could" be a manner of lose or corroded wiring. I'll check on it further at a later time. Although this is not going to cause the brake pedal to hit the floor. The Innova 5512 is even more useless. It won't even give you LIVE data let alone even attempt to communicate with the ABS. Complete waste of money. When it comes to the MT2500, the only way to know how the other guy got his MT2500 to initiate the ABS purge would be to return to him and ask if I could open up is cart in order to read the specific eprom version numbers. There's a 99.9% chance he'll tell me to F off because it requires disassembly. Honestly, this shouldn't be such a cluster in the first place. There's virtually ZERO REAL explanations on this ABS issue anywhere and now I can see why. Nonetheless, not giving up. I will once again roll the dice and see if I can waste even more money by obtaining a TECH2 Clone. They range around $450 on eBay however I sourced a seller at half the price: https://www.autonumen.com/goods-1568-GM-Tech2-Scanner-for-GM-SAAB-OPEL-SUZUKI-ISUZU-Holden.html

The mission continues...

 

[studigggs]

The MT2500 I found on eBay

I don’t have specific info for ABS brake bleeding as the truck I work on does not have that option (codes only for KH RWAL) but perhaps the below info will help.

Just having one of the black VCI cartridges does not mean you have the same version of software that your shady tree mechanic was using. The black programmable cartridges came out in the early 2000’s and the point of them was so that techs could buy one cartridge, then the snap-on man could program different VCI or troubleshooter (TSI) packages on them right from the tool truck depending on what vehicles they were working on (Asian, Domestic, European and Generic OBD/EOBD). All of theses baselines had different versions. So for instance you could have a black VCI cartridge with Asian software through the 2007 model year and Domestic software through 2003. Depends on what that tech wanted to pay for at the time. The black cartridges can’t be programmed any longer so if the version you need is not on there, there is no way to add it.

On the menu after the 2500 boot screen, you should see “Domestic” and then a version number to the right. That version number would have to be the same or higher on your unit when compared to the “known working” unit your mechanic used.

I have bought and sold quite a few MT2500s. And when I test them on my truck prior to resale I do know that sometimes they request Multi-1 for ABS and sometimes they request the GM-1 adapter. I’ve never scrutinized why, but when I get home I’ll try to play around with some cartridges I have and see at what software version the Multi-1 became unnecessary.

 

[18WheeledDemon]

I don’t have specific info for ABS brake bleeding as the truck I work on does not have that option (codes only for KH RWAL) but perhaps the below info will help.

Just having one of the black VCI cartridges does not mean you have the same version of software that your shady tree mechanic was using. The black programmable cartridges came out in the early 2000’s and the point of them was so that techs could buy one cartridge, then the snap-on man could program different VCI or troubleshooter (TSI) packages on them right from the tool truck depending on what vehicles they were working on (Asian, Domestic, European and Generic OBD/EOBD). All of theses baselines had different versions. So for instance you could have a black VCI cartridge with Asian software through the 2007 model year and Domestic software through 2003. Depends on what that tech wanted to pay for at the time. The black cartridges can’t be programmed any longer so if the version you need is not on there, there is no way to add it.

On the menu after the 2500 boot screen, you should see “Domestic” and then a version number to the right. That version number would have to be the same or higher on your unit when compared to the “known working” unit your mechanic used.

I have bought and sold quite a few MT2500s. And when I test them on my truck prior to resale I do know that sometimes they request Multi-1 for ABS and sometimes they request the GM-1 adapter. I’ve never scrutinized why, but when I get home I’ll try to play around with some cartridges I have and see at what software version the Multi-1 became unnecessary.

Finally, some "actual" help that just may be fruitful. I like picking at people's brains for information but most times that information is either a BIG secrete or they just don't know squat but yet claim they've been doing it for 20+ years... okay. I highly appreciate this information. I have software version 1.6, or at least that's what it reads out. And as I mentioned in the update, swapping eproms made ZERO impact, at least for my truck or how the MT2500 reads out. So from what I gather, in order to fully utilize these units: one must source the programming module for the carts and obtain said software... that's gonna be next to impossible. And I'm sure there are many, many different individual software packages. All of which has most likely been deleted/scrubbed by Snap-on themselves. I hope the TECH2 isn't this much of a cluster. I will say this: I'm about to re-sell my MT2500 along with all of its contents including the software discs I sourced separately purely from being pi$$ed off, although, I'm sure I'll get hosed on it. It's only worth money when the other person is selling it. My unit is probably only worth $35 with free shipping, nvm I have over $500 in it.

 

[Caman96]

Finally, some "actual" help that just may be fruitful. I like picking at people's brains for information but most times that information is either a BIG secrete or they just don't know squat but yet claim they've been doing it for 20+ years... okay.

Just because you didn’t get the answers you wanted, doesn’t mean forum members weren’t legitimately try to help.

 

[studigggs]

Finally, some "actual" help that just may be fruitful. I like picking at people's brains for information but most times that information is either a BIG secrete or they just don't know squat but yet claim they've been doing it for 20+ years... okay. I highly appreciate this information. I have software version 1.6, or at least that's what it reads out. And as I mentioned in the update, swapping eproms made ZERO impact, at least for my truck or how the MT2500 reads out. So from what I gather, in order to fully utilize these units: one must source the programming module for the carts and obtain said software... that's gonna be next to impossible. And I'm sure there are many, many different individual software packages. All of which has most likely been deleted/scrubbed by Snap-on themselves. I hope the TECH2 isn't this much of a cluster. I will say this: I'm about to re-sell my MT2500 along with all of its contents including the software discs I sourced separately purely from being pi$$ed off, although, I'm sure I'll get hosed on it. It's only worth money when the other person is selling it. My unit is probably only worth $35 with free shipping, nvm I have over $500 in it.

1.6 is a very low version. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a programmable VCI with that low of version.

The software companion disks generally just contain the reference documents that are called out in the troubleshooter cartridges. They have nothing to do with vehicle compatibility or updating firmware as all the firmware is contained in the cartridges and the software is only accessible with a proprietary snap-on cartridge reader and snap on software. You can find the readers on eBay but without the snap on programming software they are useless. The Red cartridges are not programmable.

I have some high SW versions of VCI cartridges I can loan to you if you’d like to pay to and from shipping. Contact me over PM if you would like to keep pursuing this.

I’m interested in getting to the bottom of the MT2500 ABS bleed mystery myself. If what we are missing in the community scanner is a VCI cartridge perhaps we can update the package and provide more utility to members.

The MT2500 was High Dollar back in its day. Some shops may have had only one and even then, the number of techs who would actually use it was small. That is why so many are 20+ years old and still in great condition. It was a different generation of diagnostics.

 

[18WheeledDemon]

1.6 is a very low version. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a programmable VCI with that low of version.

The software companion disks generally just contain the reference documents that are called out in the troubleshooter cartridges. They have nothing to do with vehicle compatibility or updating firmware as all the firmware is contained in the cartridges and the software is only accessible with a proprietary snap-on cartridge reader and snap on software. You can find the readers on eBay but without the snap on programming software they are useless. The Red cartridges are not programmable.

I have some high SW versions of VCI cartridges I can loan to you if you’d like to pay to and from shipping. Contact me over PM if you would like to keep pursuing this.

I’m interested in getting to the bottom of the MT2500 ABS bleed mystery myself. If what we are missing in the community scanner is a VCI cartridge perhaps we can update the package and provide more utility to members.

The MT2500 was High Dollar back in its day. Some shops may have had only one and even then, the number of techs who would actually use it was small. That is why so many are 20+ years old and still in great condition. It was a different generation of diagnostics.

Once again, some "actual help" at least in the right direction. I am -not- interested in "loaning", I'm interested in getting to the bottom of this once and for all. Obviously, it's all possible or else how was it ever done in the first place? The information you provided now leads me to wanna obtain said read/write hardware and collect the software. I am both a Retro Tech Geek and a Content Creator so I intend to make a video on this very subject... once it's figured out. You've basically provided a "needle in a hack stack". This is more information I've learned since the start, which is long before I even created a profile on this blog site. At no point have I called anyone out within this forum as the previous puke suggested. My references are towards people in general, like the half-assed mechanic who didn't feel it relevant to put his foot on the brake pedal during the purge. Nonetheless, I don't care about folks who have nothing better to do besides run there mouth. What needs to be done: collect relevant hardware and software, confirm vehicle compatibility and offer a service containing all relevant information needed to others in search of said information. And let not this become a "greed" thing either, I intend to freely share everything. If there's enough of us around the country capable of programming these things correctly, that makes things better for all. There's many different communities out there such as Vintage electronics and Computer Restoration'ers who exist in effort to preserve the past, this particular effort or "community" is lacking that effort. Fun Fact: there is such a thing as "Rom Dumping". This is highly popular among the Retro Video Gamers. One simply cannot own & obtain every single game ever created however, everyone has a little of something. Over the years they managed to Dump every Rom from every Cart and this is why we are able to enjoy Emulators. The very same practise can be employed in this manner, we dump the Roms from the Cartridges. This may take some effort due to the fact, Chevy guys like us aren't going to be the only ones interested, lots of different older vehicles out there. This actually could be fun. I will make the first step by rolling the dice on the hardware required, hopefully those like yourself with known working Carts will be willing to "lend" said Cart temporarily for Rom Dumping. If we don't do it, nobody else will.

 

[Caman96]

Tools struggling with tools!