Question about loose steering

[marshallsmith27]

I recently took my truck to a well known mechanic that does great work and he did. He told me that I needed a pitman arm so I replaced it and he said he did a couple of inspections on everything since I just bought the truck about 6 months ago. So In replaced the pitman arm and I just replaced the rag joint and I still have a good 2.5” or so of play in the steering. Is this something under the dash?

93’ Sierra 2wd 1500

 

[LTC_]

Probably steering box slop.

 

[Just Nobody]

Before you get too nuts, remove the reg joint and change that steering shaft over to a jeep steering shaft. I new about the shaft swap for a long time, so I bought two shafts off ebay and had them sitting on the shelf for 3 years. I did one my 93 Blazer before i sold it a few months ago. When people say '' its a day/night difference '', this is my first real experience with a day/night difference, and I am over 70 odd years old.

 

[Shwa Kid]

There's a few sources of slop on these, worn pitman arm is definitely one; usually you'll see the idler arm also needs replacement if the pitman arm is worn out. [Jack up passenger side of truck, grab the tire and try to "steer" it left and right, feel for play, try to get your eyes on the idler arm to confirm not the tie rod]. The jeep shaft is definitely an upgrade but if your rag joint is new, it shouldn't be that bad (although I seem to recall some discussion about the replacements being softer/sloppier than stock). BTW for anybody else reading this, you can't do the jeep shaft if you have the steering shaft with two universals (later year trucks, I think 96 or 97 and up).

I think it's most likely your steering box needs adjustment. It's a Saginaw steering box, google that and you should find lots of info on adjusting it. Seems more recently people just swap out the whole box, but adjusting costs you nothing, might as well try it.

 

[thinger2]

The only things I can think of under the dash .
Do you have a tilt steering wheel.
The tilt uses a u-joint that does wear out.
if you have tilt, does the steering wheel move top to bottom or side to side or if you pull or push on it.
Are the column bolts tight?
There is also a column bearing at the firewall.
Just because you mentioned replacing the Pitmann arm.
Did you pull the box all the way out to do it or did you unbolt the box and flip it in frame to get at it.
If that is the case, did you make sure to put the all of the washers and spacers back onto the steering box bolts in the correct order.
Are they tight. Did you use an impact and if so did you break any part of the steering gear mounts?
Not to say that you did, these are just things Ive seen people do.
A worn out pittman arm often comes with a worn out steering gear.
I would check the idler arm and bracket to but It wouldnt surprise me at all if they are still good.
In my experiance, loose drifty steering on an old vehicle has never come down to just one thing.
Its all old and worn out and needs to be replaced.
You have to go into this knowing that the entire front end is smoked.
Especially if you are running a drop or a lift or different tires or anything that changes the front geometry or stance.
One of the most common old car complaints are about steering.
When you put one new part into a bunch of wasted parts that just transfers the slop somewhere else.
You cant replace just one part and then spend the money on an alighnment and expect it to last
And good luck finding a shop that will know how to do it and that will take the time to do it.
Its kinda like when you do a customer a big favor by going way the hell out of your way to save them from dying because you did free brake work and they come back next week screaming becuase the headlight is out.
"It wasnt out untill you worked on it!
Yep you crazy *****. What happened was when our techs were scooping your moldy friggen chicken bones and pepsi bottles out of your crap wagon so they could make the friggen brakes work because they saw that you had two child car seats in the back.
What these guys did after making zero money off of this is sabotage your friggen headlight bulb.
Yep, we are all about ******* you over ya moron.
I can understand that in a way.
They stopped teaching autoshop and any kind of basic life skills long long ago.
For people who dont have those life skills it can be a pretty huge shock when they face plant into the world.
And it can be a real life altering event.
Loosing that car may be that last step into poverty.
The people I have zero sympathy for are the whining bitching crying turds who bought a yacht and cant pay for it.
Folks, It is really just the weakest snivelling excuse telling slimey nasty gross disgusting cowardly **** Ive ever seen.
Nobody is quite so feeble and weak and such a victom as a billionaire.
Ive encountered a few of these folks over my career and the one thing that I have sensed from all of them is fake bravado with underlying fear.
And that is why they are spooky *****.
They have enough money to change politics and they do it because they are afraid of us and what we might do to upset the fragile little world they live in.
Ive done business with everyone of these weaks ***** investment companies over the years and I am just about on the ******* verge of retirement and I know that are freaking out because they are ass deep in commercial property on 5 year loans and they floated all of that at low rates.
The fed upped the borrow rate.
Several times.
I know Ive said it before for a couple of years now but Im in the business and we as a nation are so overbuilt on retail space and it is not sustainable.
We are at about 155 percent overbuilt for the next twenty years and about maybe 40 percent or less of that is long term viable space.
The rest of that is "Spec Built" based on future leases that are not going to happen.
We quite often know that we are building a ****** apartment building that is just a really expensive money sucking corporate tax dodge.
We know that we are taking down historic buildings and replaceing them with little 3 grand a month rabbit cage apartments.
We, most of us. Are old Seattle people.
I am consulting on a project for the engineer of record who taught me about garden slugs in the 4th grade.
When my parents moved us to Seattle in the 4th grade I didnt know anyone.
I was the biggest overgrown huge ***** kid on the planet.
I am a pretty tall and big guy.
And that, when you are young, makes you a freak.
But, there was this one tough as hell girl who would show up and have my back every time I had a fight.
Which was pretty much every damn day.
I had forgot all about it.
It took a bit to figure it all out and make sure we dont have any kind of a conflict
She is the engineer of record
I am the steel contract guy.
We had kittens and put ladybugs on each others faces.
And we both through all of the ****** up things that we both went through we ******* are still alive.
Shes my chipped toothed long hair looser saviour folks.

 

[Menissalt]

Rather than going with the jeep shaft, use the Cunningham Machine one that is made for these trucks, https://www.cunninghammachine.com/product/1988-1994-chevrolet-truck-lower-half-steering-shaft/

While you have that off replace the worn bearing and don't waste your money on oem equivalent ones, use this: https://www.wolffeng.com/store/p2/M109SS_Lower_Steering_Column_Cartridge_Bearing.html

With those on have the shop look for where your slop is or have a friend turn the wheel while you look. I've changed out everything from the bearing down except for the center link and tie rods, but the bushings are all new. The play is now minimal enough that it feels safe to drive and I'm not sure where the rest of the play is, it's on my list.

Looking back at it now, I regret replacing the gearbox. I got a redhead and nothing is wrong with it specifically, I just wish I had converted to rack and pinion. Not only is there still that bit of play, I get close to no feedback (resistance) from the wheels so turning feels very soft.

 

[Schurkey]

Perhaps a moderator will move this thread out of "Engines" and into "Stock Suspension + Bolt On Kits".

Rather than going with the jeep shaft, use the Cunningham Machine one that is made for these trucks, https://www.cunninghammachine.com/product/1988-1994-chevrolet-truck-lower-half-steering-shaft/

When it was me, I bought the C3500HD shaft and bolt. Perfect fit. GM numbers 26015779 (shaft) and 11610555 (bolt)

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Longer bolt needed with upgraded steering shaft.

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With those on have the shop look for where your slop is or have a friend turn the wheel while you look.

Yup.

Looking back at it now, I regret replacing the gearbox. I got a redhead and nothing is wrong with it specifically, I just wish I had converted to rack and pinion. Not only is there still that bit of play, I get close to no feedback (resistance) from the wheels so turning feels very soft.

Rack 'n' pinion conversion is like using dynamite to kill a gopher. First Guess: Redhead didn't use a stiff-enough torsion bar in your steering gear. Contact them and see if they can make it right.

Would be worth checking the alignment angles, too. Lack of caster makes for easy steering, along with higher-speed instability. And excess toe does all sorts of freaky stuff to the steering.

 

[Menissalt]

Rack 'n' pinion conversion is like using dynamite to kill a gopher. First Guess: Redhead didn't use a stiff-enough torsion bar in your steering gear. Contact them and see if they can make it right.

Would be worth checking the alignment angles, too. Lack of caster makes for easy steering, along with higher-speed instability. And excess toe does all sorts of freaky stuff to the steering.

Already been down this route, the last time we looked we could see the gearbox output matching the input. Though now that we've addressed two more areas we do need to take a look at the whole system again. To add to the diag next time it's in, I also noticed some slight bouncing, most noticable when coming to a stop which tells me a few things.

Once my box is worn out some years down the line I'll be going with a rack and pinion out of preference.

 

[Erik the Awful]

When it was me, I bought the C3500HD shaft and bolt. Perfect fit. GM numbers 26015779 (shaft) and 11610555 (bolt)

Discontinued, even from Dorman. I've been keeping my eye out for one for under $100 from a reputable seller, and haven't found one yet. The shaft on Roscoe was garbage.

 

[Schurkey]

we could see the gearbox output matching the input.

Tells you nothing about the torsion bar diameter. Your symptoms point towards a skinny torsion bar.

Discontinued, even from Dorman. I've been keeping my eye out for one for under $100 from a reputable seller, and haven't found one yet.

I was told it was discontinued when I bought mine. Later, a guy on this forum said it was not discontinued, but was out-of-stock due to "supply chain issues".

Sorry. Don't know what to say. It was a wonderful upgrade.