Please help ... is my 4L80E damaged?

[stutaeng]

wow ... what a helpful bunch, thank you all guys, See below in red
the mystery deepens with this ol girl !?

... bit of background to the issues - I am having:

I drove here to N Africa from Spain about 2 months ago, no problems,
here there are multiple hazards on the road, especially slow speed bumps that you can even find
on InterState highways!
I must admit I went over few of those at considerable speed - at one of those it caused the
trany unit to break at the two upper bolts [pics] Broken bellhousing is a problem. Needs fixed.
that probably explains loss of traction and shuddering when in OD mode that I experienced intermittently for at least a month,
I even posted something about it on a different forum.
Not aware of the breaks I changed the oil [ATF] and filter but I reused the old sump seal [not a good idea - I come to realise], as long as it doesn't leak, no problem
after that I kept loosing fluid and topping it up and driving on until couple of days when she lost the reverse and even forward motion was difficult,
adding fluid made very small difference and finally we dropped the trany and discovered the breaks,
here is the thing ... the copper shims around the oil pump looked ok ... I though as a result of bolt break that would destroy the shims ???

we are going to weld the thing and put it back together again as advised by you good guys ...
but I am at loss here .... none of the issues explain the loss of gears? See last item.
and I my other question ... in the pic of the side of pump [finger pointing to], is that a seal that need replacing or is it a ring of some sort that should be left alone? Yes, that seal (with the yellow band) should also be replaced.

what are my chances of getting this ol girl back on the road? My concern is the fracture of the bellhousing allowed the internal shafts to have movement/play and make contact on the sealing ring/journals. This causes loss of internal fluid pressure. At this point, just put it back together and hope and pray for the best is all you can do. If that doesn't work, you have to dig deeper.

Well, "now" you tell us the whole story! LOL. I'm joking.

I would say just go ahead and tear apart the pump to inspect the gears, since you already removed it. Remove and inspect the valves in the pump. You don't really need any specialized tools, just snap ring pliers and (2) 5-6" worm gear hose clamps for re-alignment of the pump halves. That will mostly eliminate the chance of pump problems, but if some parts are discovered bad, I'm not sure what available part you have there?

 

[seza]

You are a gentleman n scholar - Stu,
in a way you are giving me hope, me think that as the trany unit was not in perfect alignment with the engine - as you said it caused it to loose pressure, the hope is that by welding the bell housing back together again it should give it some stability .... fingers crossed

 

[Schurkey]

I must admit I went over few of those at considerable speed - at one of those it caused the
trany unit to break at the two upper bolts [pics]

Verify your engine and transmission mounts. Assure that the trans crossmember and the truck frame is not rusted-out. I think the truck has some structural problems if the thing flexed enough to break the bellhousing.

I reused the old sump seal [not a good idea - I come to realise],

What you call a "sump seal", we would call a "pan gasket". Some of them can be re-used. But not the kind I see in the photo.

the copper shims around the oil pump looked ok ... I though as a result of bolt break that would destroy the shims

I think--but not entirely sure--that what you're calling "copper shims", we would call "thrust washers".

Note that when you get the pump fully-installed, you should check the end-play of the front shaft. At least, the THM400 would require this, and I'm sure the 4L80E also needs this done. You need a limited amount of free-play in the shaft--not too much, not too little. I don't remember what the spec is. If you don't have any free-play, it's probably not assembled properly.

we are going to weld the thing

Be careful. if there's another Chevy engine around there, bolt the trans to that block to assist in alignment of the various pieces.

none of the issues explain the loss of gears?

Losing a bunch of fluid leads to low pressure. Low pressure leads to slippage, slippage leads to burnt friction material. Burnt friction material leads to improper engagement and "no gears". But I didn't see heaps and piles of burnt friction material in the pan. How old was that fluid?

in the pic of the side of pump [finger pointing to], is that a seal that need replacing or is it a ring of some sort that should be left alone?

It's essentially a bigass "O-ring", although I think it's got a square cross-section instead of round. What I can see of it, it appears to be in good condition. I'd likely re-use it.

what are my chances of getting this ol girl back on the road?

I spent about two hours in Casa Blanca. The bus drove past mosques so that we could spend more time in the "tourist trap" shopping center, and we never did find Rick's American Bar. That's what I know of "North Africa". It may be that I have an unfair assessment of the mechanical abilities of the locals.

I know that I would want to have service manuals, pressure gauges, and access to a ready supply of parts.

I also know that you're more adventurous than I am. Hopefully, that's enough.

 

[seza]

Schurkey, (and other)
luckily here [in Algeria] no tourist traps to worry lol,
the mechanics are fairly competent, just that they don't deal with auto tranies let alone US ones that is
why this job is proving difficult but I think we gave it our best shot:
1. we pulled out the inards of the trany (planetary gears etc , all looked ok)
2. we it back together again as best as we can with no testing or replacing anything other than some seals and applying RTV here an there
3. what remain is the welding, we will do that tmrw
4. all fingers crossed (and sphincters tight!) that she will be ok if not it is been an adventure, I have owned this "proper" vehicle for 12 years
probably the best $2500 I've ever spent in my life! she was made to last - at the end of a golden era when the Americans were "leaders" in the field!
... any way here pics of what we found inside

 

[stutaeng]

I couldn't recognize that last photo. I looked at your previous photos and it looks like your transmission may actually be a 4L60E. I knew that input shaft and valve body looked "different?" Maybe I'm wrong here. You haven't posted an overall photo of the unit or pan.

Everything that was discussed still applies mostly (there some differences between the 2 units) but probably should confirm for ordering replacement parts. Although your replacement parts currently seem like are welding and RTV.

 

[seza]

Stu,
I think you are right, I was wrong all along, it is a 4L60E!
there is a code on the side: 8685061
from a YT video - I saw I think this number can deciphered?

 

[Schurkey]

They put a 4L60E behind a diesel, in a Suburban? GM has done some stupid stuff, but I didn't think they were that reckless.

I can't believe it went 350K miles without exploding. The 700/4L60 in my pickup has been rebuilt twice, and has fewer miles on it than that. (not by much.) Both times, the planetaries were totaled.

 

[seza]

Schurkey,
you will be surprise to learn that this big girl had a interesting history,
the guy who owned the vehicle before me imported it the US in 2004 as a standard 1994 suburban K1500 5.7 gas ,
few years later [the hay days of Diesel] he converted it to Diesel by putting a 6.5TD that came from a 1996 2500 truck,
but I am not sure if he reused the trany from the gas engine or used what was in the 2500,
forward to 2010 I bought the vehicle from his - by then - estranged wife who new nothing of the history of the work,
in a sense it was a major gamble on my part - that in hindsight - had paid off handsomely!
In all the 12 years - I had no issues with it, I cris-crossed Europe with it multiple times and into North Africa,
I think the mileage I quoted above is well underestimated because at point the mileage register was not connected
I would say she well above 600k if not more!
she was and still is being used and abused, to be fair the issues I am having now are clearly my fault for running it
short of oil and also for driving fast over crazy road humps!
People like yourself with good experience of these type of vehicles will know more about what goes in where,
but sometimes **** happens and other times good things happen ... it's life!.

I am hopeful she will be ok after this episode and I am confident she will go for another 20 years!
but if she does not and the trany burns up I will still be happy with her.

here what she looked like in the spring of her years! lol

 

[stutaeng]

They put a 4L60E behind a diesel, in a Suburban? GM has done some stupid stuff, but I didn't think they were that reckless.

I can't believe it went 350K miles without exploding. The 700/4L60 in my pickup has been rebuilt twice, and has fewer miles on it than that. (not by much.) Both times, the planetaries were totaled.

I don't know about the international market, but domestically only the naturally aspirated diesel had the 60. All the TD6.5 got the heavier duty units. That's my internet search from various different forums.

 

[seza]

Hi all,
You all have been very helpful,
we are now ready to put the trany back in place but I am not sure if we should fully empty the torque converter or leave it as is?
while on the subject of oil, I read in various Internet sources that the 4L60E will need about 12 quarts from dry? is that about right?