Northstar Swap/Vortec 4200 Swap

[GoToGuy]

Overheard in Chrysler board room , " hold my beer, I wanna stuff supercharger on this" .
And it was in the other day. Has anyone stuffed this in a GMT 400. ( Demon or Red eye truck ).

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[summitwhiteV6]

This.

There are far better choices (like just about anything really) for a swap than a Northstar. Brand new they were underwhelming, and the horrendous reliability issue makes them a very poor candidate.

A turbo 4.2 would be interesting and different.

If you want to be different, grab a LV3 4.3L and 8 or 10spd from a newer Express van. Atleast it is common, reliable and has aftermarket support being that it is basically a LT based V8 with 2 cylinders chopped out. At that point though, might as well just get a L83 5.3L, L86 6.2L or L8T 6.6L. I have seen complete takeout L86s and L8Ts with the transmission and less than 10K miles for under $6K.

After reading and some dissuasion from you guys and one of my coworkers, I've decided to go with the 4200. Dunno when it'll happen, it'll be more of a down the line thing.

I've also considered the LV3 4.3 from the newer trucks as a swap but I'm not the biggest fan of direct injection. Plus, I'm not sure what aftermarket there is for them.

 

[Scooterwrench]

Hello DC,

I remember trying to figure out how a "2-stroke" Detroit Diesel operated. I remember thinking
that a 4-stroke was like a vacuum tube (intuitive, made sense) ...while the blown 2-stroke DD was
like transistor theory. (I could see/hear that they worked, but had a tough time grokking/believing
the underlying theory of operation. :0)




@Scooterwrench , why go with brand C's 4-stroke hemi elephant when you can stuff one of the General's
2-stroke Mastodons into the engine bay?

You only live once...

:0)

? The 6V53TT aluminum is not a real Detroit? I was looking at one that was a military surplus stationary engine. The price was right for me,the shipping may not be,may require a road trip

 

[618 Syndicate]

After reading and some dissuasion from you guys and one of my coworkers, I've decided to go with the 4200. Dunno when it'll happen, it'll be more of a down the line thing.

I've also considered the LV3 4.3 from the newer trucks as a swap but I'm not the biggest fan of direct injection. Plus, I'm not sure what aftermarket there is for them.

WYA in Illinois?

 

[Martin Evans]

I studied up a bit on the Northstars when I was looking at a Cadillac Allante. The lateer Northstars are supposed to be fairly reliable, as they have larger head bolts. The PCMs are locked though, so tuning is out, unless you go with an aftermarket system. I don't know about bolt patterm for the bell housing, but I'd guess it's the 60 degree V6 pattern, or something else entirely. I would be super surprised if it was standard Chevy/LS.

I would go for the Atlas Inline 6 or 5. The sixes have other's messing with them too, so you'll be able to share/learn in a community.

I wouldn't recommend an Atlas to anybody. Way too much work to repair. I had to do the head gasket on my Envoy. First, three head bolts snapped when I taking the head off. One of them was underneath the firewall, so I had to build a 90° portable drill press jig to drill out the broken bolts. Then I discovered that the bolts are are rare M11. $35 bucks for any other Helicoil kit, $400 for that one . Screw that, I drilled them out and threaded them for standard 1/2" grade 8 bolts. Then I made the mistake of taking the timing chain guide out. Not just a mistake, a REALLY BIG MISTAKE. The tensioner is a ratcheting type so I couldn't just put the guide back because the tensioner either needs to be reset or replaced. Ok, so pull the timing cover and replace the tensioner, right? Wrong! Oil pan has to come off to detach the oil pickup tube from the timing cover. Front axles go through oil pan, so they have to be removed, as well as the differential, a/c compressor and water pump, all of which are attached to the timing cover, as well.

 

[Scooterwrench]

I wouldn't recommend an Atlas to anybody. Way too much work to repair. I had to do the head gasket on my Envoy. First, three head bolts snapped when I taking the head off. One of them was underneath the firewall, so I had to build a 90° portable drill press jig to drill out the broken bolts. Then I discovered that the bolts are are rare M11. $35 bucks for any other Helicoil kit, $400 for that one . Screw that, I drilled them out and threaded them for standard 1/2" grade 8 bolts. Then I made the mistake of taking the timing chain guide out. Not just a mistake, a REALLY BIG MISTAKE. The tensioner is a ratcheting type so I couldn't just put the guide back because the tensioner either needs to be reset or replaced. Ok, so pull the timing cover and replace the tensioner, right? Wrong! Oil pan has to come off to detach the oil pickup tube from the timing cover. Front axles go through oil pan, so they have to be removed, as well as the differential, a/c compressor and water pump, all of which are attached to the timing cover, as well.

Would it be feasible or even possible to drill out the head bolt holes and re-tap 1/2"-13?
Axles go THROUGH the oil pan? CV joint goes bad and you have an even badder day.

 

[Martin Evans]

Would it be feasible or even possible to drill out the head bolt holes and re-tap 1/2"-13?
Axles go THROUGH the oil pan? CV joint goes bad and you have an even badder day.

Yeah, that's what I did. Head bolt holes weren't a problem. Drilling out the broken bolts in the block was a big problem. I got one of these and one of these and made a base plate to get the jig properly aligned.

 

[Martin Evans]

Would it be feasible or even possible to drill out the head bolt holes and re-tap 1/2"-13?
Axles go THROUGH the oil pan? CV joint goes bad and you have an even badder day.

As far as the CV joints, I don't think that they are any more of problem than on any other vehicle, but having to remove axles to replace a timing chain tensioner is just dumb engineering if you ask me.

 

[Scooterwrench]

The engineer finished 99th out of the 100 in his class.

 

[Martin Evans]

If you want to be different, grab a LV3 4.3L and 8 or 10spd from a newer Express van. Atleast it is common, reliable and has aftermarket support being that it is basically a LT based V8 with 2 cylinders chopped out. At that point though, might as well just get a L83 5.3L, L86 6.2L or L8T 6.6L. I have seen complete takeout L86s and L8Ts with the transmission and less than 10K miles for under $6K.

That's what I was thinking. 6.2L swap without any modifications will give him the nearly 400hp that he is aiming for. On the other hand, he may be looking for the satisfaction of knowing that he built a 400hp engine from one that originally put out 250 hp rather than the actual higher horsepower.