educate me on solid axles

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TylerZ281500

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80s ff350s had kinpins still? i was under the impression that they did not. that opens up a channel or two. im just not a fan on leafs, and i like the look and ride of linked fronts with coils over them.

dumb question: unit bearings are what on the axle?
 

bggrnchvy

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how about newer dodge axles? i heard the whole center disconnect is undersireable or causes issues but they seem to be drivers drop as well.

Newer meaning 94-02 or newer meaning 03+? They're quite a bit different.

bushings on a 4 link wouldnt cause any exess side movement would it? id love to not run a panhard, i cant explain how much id love not to run one i have no serious technical reason why, i just think they are ugly.

can a big ol beefy sway bar with some sort of disconnect, maybe like automatic jeep disconnects work?

and info on the dodge axle was clear and straight forward, thank you now i can get those out of my head

Bushings will add some bind to individual wheel travel but they would never make up for a panhard in a parallel 4-link.

all 4 links need a track bar, doesnt matter if heim or bushing, they still would have lateral movement without it, leaf springs if not too much of a arch can mostly get away without one, like a 73-87 4" lift spring which is flat is fairly resistant with crossover to the body shift issue.

Except for all those 4-links that don't need them.

no need for a trac bar on a double or single triangulated 4 link. Track bars are needed on radius arms, three links, and parrallel 4 links.

The super duty axles are actually pretty strong. the shafts are larger than the previous D60's and I think in 2011 they went to 35 spline outers. I personally do not like unit bearings, you are kind of a slave to a $400 part and does not offer the servicability as a traditional spindle / hub assembally.

I have one club member that runs a 94+ dodge D60 but it has an extensive amount of work done to make it survive. he re-tubed the pass side tube, and runs ford TTB spindles and outers.

Ideally you will want a king pin 60 from a 78-79 F250/350 or from a 80's F350. I do not think they made 4wd F350's in 80 & 81 and then switched over to ball joints in the 90's. the advantage of the 78-79 is there is more drivers side tube to work with. Sky manufacturing makes a kit for both axles to be swapped into a gmt400, but are for leafs and not links.

Triangulated 4 link + mechanical steering = bump steer. Full hydro is plenty doable, but it's not something I would do to a vehicle I planned to drive daily or mostly on road. The lack of feeling results in a lot more adjustment while driving and it gets tiring, inevitable nuns dying hose bursting argument aside.

80-85 Ford 4x4 trucks all had TTB. The D60 returned in 86, still in kingpin trim but with a wider 36" spring perch width. The kingpins were done away with in 92.

Timken unit bearing replacements for my Dodge are $250/pc, still pricey but I can almost do two for $400. The biggest issue with the 03+ Dodge 9.25" front live axles is the upper ball joint. The only solutions currently are exceptionally expensive until Synergy brings out there option.

80s ff350s had kinpins still? i was under the impression that they did not. that opens up a channel or two. im just not a fan on leafs, and i like the look and ride of linked fronts with coils over them.

dumb question: unit bearings are what on the axle?

If you're running coils, you don't want a post 86 (they were TTB from 80-86), pre 05 Ford front axle. The short driver axle tube means you have to move the coil cup up and you loose alot of flexibility if you're trying to keep something reasonable functioning in regards to height.
 

TylerZ281500

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i dont necessarily need an axle with coil buckets already i can cut and weld on new ones, or does it still cause an issue. i was talking about the 94-02 dodge axles but it seems they have issues and to me thats a stay away sign.

my plan was to go full hydro. i saw a setup that had remote in line guages or warning lights in the interior that if a hose started loosing pressure a warning light would come on. the guy never had a problem with it and when i saw the truck it was beautifully done.

im not too worried about bushings creating bind. im not rock crawling this thing so i dot need insane amounts of flex and wheel travel.
are you saying regardless bushings would still be better than a 4 link with a panhard?

whats TTB? kingpins stayed for how long after 86?

ive taken it as Ford in the way to go currently. im not a purist so i dont see that as a bad thing ford just has a better more suitable part. now either 7?-79 would work well just cut off the spring perches. now as far as 80s axles go the 86-? still had KP's, but were shorter? so in order to compensate for less width the coil bucket would need to be raised?
 

TruckinAin4Sissies

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I copied this but don't remember where it came from...

"You are going to want a Dana 60 front axle, preferably from a ford, i say this due to the fact that they are a left hand carrier so you are able to still use your stock transfer case with slight drive shaft mods. The years of truck to track down are 78-79 Ford F350 (some F250 has it too). the reason for this is the 32" perch width which will allow you to run bigger tires without interferring with wheel to leaf spring. (44" Boggers is no problem) Anything after that in a ford goes to a perch width of 36", its still ok to do but smaller tires is the sacrifice (but still big, 38" -40"). Up to 1991 will work, after that they go to ball joint style as opposed to the earlier king pin. In my opinion, king pin is stronger and better for hard wheeling. Avoid any new Super duty ford axle due to the fact the wheel bolt pattern goes to metric so you will have to get a ford matching rear axle. All chevy dana 60 axles are fine to use except for the low pinion due to the right side carrier,( this means changing transfer case too) this affects lift height because of the extreme front driveline angle ness. Bonus of the chevy dana 60 is there all a 32" perch width.

ok, you got your front diff, lets find a rear

14 bolt full floater GM, why?, easy to work on, easy to set up, and its a GM. Theres so many parts for them and a wide range of gear ratios/lockers. They even have kits to convert to disc brake. Also, they match fords wheel studs (8 on 6.5") Pretty much no matter what 14FF you get, youll have to cut off perches and weld on new ones to match your frame width and spring location.

Transfer case time, Ford dana 60 alows you to keep your stock one (till it blows), but if your hardcore into this, try to find a NP205 cause there bullet prrof and gear driven. Hard to kill one of these. They also come as a divorced transfer case so you can set your position for best driveline orientation. Advanced Adapters have adapters to mate a NP205 to lots of transmission choices, (Go TH400 if you can, or a well built TH350)

Now you want to install it, www.offroadunlimited.com can set the install kit up for you, they will include all brackets and such specifically made for your OBS truck (they have kits for the 32" and 36" spring perches). They make very good quality parts as well. This is the company i recommend to all to use. I have delt with some of there parts and they are top notch. They can sell you spring leaves as well, you tell them the height, they send the springs. However, its cheaper to get them made at your local spring arch shop.

So its all bolted in, diffs are in (you used new hardware and u bolts right???) Now what? Brakes, your truck is now a **** load heavier, make sure your brakes are up to par, the 14FF disc conversion is well worth your money, and besides, they use older chevy front calipers and pads and rotors so service costs are cheap. Steering, www.offroaddesign.com has the parts needed (and again, ive used these too, they are very well engineered and built. if your using a GM front axle, you will need a crossover steering kit (this changes the stering knuckle from using the drivers side knuckle, to using the passenger side. (the design of factory steering of these axles will not work with your OBS truck without the crossover kit) Another great idea is the use of there high steer kit which moves your steering arm from th ront of the knuckle to the top and also reduces the drastic angle of this bar to create less stress on the truck and steering. ORD also uses tie rod ends in there parts insted of heim joints, which are not street legal. I have also used RSC hydralic assist kits which greatly improve steering ease (you can turn 44" boggers effortlessly with truck stopped). These kits are easy to install and set up, and they look good. Dont over look all the extra little things, (stainless brake hoses, new hardware, match the front and rear gear ratios, driveshaft modifications etc...)

Your in for a big, expensive task, but once you got it nailed, you got yourself a hell of a trail/mud rig that everyone will envy.

There, thats the basic needs for this task, of course you can go light duty (dodge dana 44 front diff, 12 bolt gm rear (or whats in there now). Who wants that though?...... There is much work to do and i advise that you get all quality parts, especially for braking and steering, from the suppliers i listed. Safety first for you and the others on the road."






-Truckin'-
 

bggrnchvy

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i dont necessarily need an axle with coil buckets already i can cut and weld on new ones, or does it still cause an issue. i was talking about the 94-02 dodge axles but it seems they have issues and to me thats a stay away sign.

Yes, I get that, again the issue is that on the later Ford leaf sprung axles the center section is moved over 2" closer to the inner C leaving less room. To fit most 4.5"+ OD coils at the right width you need to put the mount higher than you would on a 77.5-79 axle as there is more tube and less interference with the center section. If you're going to build it tall it won't matter, but if you're trying to package it tightly meaning low lift and some bump travel it's a pita.

my plan was to go full hydro. i saw a setup that had remote in line guages or warning lights in the interior that if a hose started loosing pressure a warning light would come on. the guy never had a problem with it and when i saw the truck it was beautifully done.

I have full hydro on my Chevy, again aside from the failure aspect the issue is that it is tedious to drive on road. I have 3.25 turns lock to lock, a feedback steering valve, good caster and it still only tracks marginally and requires alot of wheel input. Very workable for a rig that sees little street time but I wouldn't want to drive it to work.

As for the failure, I don't think it's any more prone to sponaneous failure than a mechanical system. However the warning light thing is super limited, it's an on demand pump and the issue isn't working pressure it's available fluid. At 1200psi using hydro fluid and a small cut/burst (1/4" x .025") you can conceivably drain a 1gal system in less than 13 seconds. It won't feel bad until the last half either when you start to have air in the ram feed lines.

Not to say cutting/abraiding a 2 wire hose or a 4 wire hose isn't tough or that I think you need to stress it, I just think relying pressure indicating warning lights as a fail safe is a waste of time in this application.

im not too worried about bushings creating bind. im not rock crawling this thing so i dot need insane amounts of flex and wheel travel.
are you saying regardless bushings would still be better than a 4 link with a panhard?

I'm saying bushing create bind, that's about it. If I were you I'd go missing link 3-link for packaging and handling and avoid full hydro, just run an assist ram.

whats TTB? kingpins stayed for how long after 86?

Twin traction beam.

Again, kingpins were from 86-91.

ive taken it as Ford in the way to go currently. im not a purist so i dont see that as a bad thing ford just has a better more suitable part. now either 7?-79 would work well just cut off the spring perches. now as far as 80s axles go the 86-? still had KP's, but were shorter? so in order to compensate for less width the coil bucket would need to be raised?

The axles were the same WMS, the 86-91 Ford 60's just have the pumpkin moved over.

Just think of it as a Dana part supplied to Ford.
 

outalne94z71

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all solid D60 axles are in the 65 wsm-wsm wideth give or take an inch. 78-79 D60 perches are I think 32.5" apart, the other KP and BJ D60's used up until 97 were 36" apart. Not sure on super duty.

none were 65 wms-wms

78-91 chevy was 69.5 with 3" spring pads spaced 32"
78-93 dodge is 67.5, 2.5" pads spaced 32.5"
77.5-99 ford is 69.25 (77.5-79)31.5" spacing(85.5-99) 36.5" spacing
 

jps4jeep

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Triangulated 4 link + mechanical steering = bump steer. Full hydro is plenty doable, but it's not something I would do to a vehicle I planned to drive daily or mostly on road. The lack of feeling results in a lot more adjustment while driving and it gets tiring, inevitable nuns dying hose bursting argument aside.

80-85 Ford 4x4 trucks all had TTB. The D60 returned in 86, still in kingpin trim but with a wider 36" spring perch width. The kingpins were done away with in 92.

Thanks for the info, I knew there were TTB axles in the early 80's but the years escaped me.
As for the 4 link with out the trac bar and mechanical steering, I have not experienced what you describe, but, My experience is limited to one vehicle, a jeep. Not sure if the frame allows for more ideal geometry. every other front link suspension I have done has full hydro.

Thanks for the info.
 
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