Cranks but won't start.

[Hipster]

doesn't OP have a hydro flat tappet cam? all this not getting the engine running is not good for the cam or the rings. i make sure my valve lash/lifter preload is set cold, check it 2 or 3 times. i like the EOIC method myself. drop dist in with #1 cyc @ TDC. this is EASY to do solo. pull #1 spark plug, shove a shop towel on the top of the #1 hole and turn the engine over with a long ratchet until you hear the rag blow off. then line up the balancer mark on 0 and drop your dist in with the rotor pointed at #1 cylinder. if it doesn't drop down all the way then just bump the key and it will mesh up with the oil pump. once you flash it up, i use the warm up time to get the timing set and within 10-15 minutes you should be bringing up the rpm to do the cam break in. yet another reason a roller cam shaft is worth the extra $$$ and also why i just pay extra money and get the engine broken in on the dyno. WAY less heart ache and wondering "what if"....

Yeah, he didn't go roller, and absolutely correct that you can crank a HFT cam into destruction. Valve lash or where he set it has crossed my mind as Comp and some other lifters call for 1/2 turn from zero and no more. He started a new thread leaving all the build info out.

 

[tayto]

Yeah, he didn't go roller, and absolutely correct that you can crank a HFT into destruction. Valve lash or where he set it has crossed my mind as Comp and some other lifters call for 1/2 turn from zero.

i set all sbc hydraulic lifters @ 1/2 turn, its a safe place to start and worst case there will be rocker clatter it wont be holding open a valve

usually after break in ill do a hot running adjustment to make sure nothing moved

 

[Hipster]

i set all sbc hydraulic lifters @ 1/2 turn, its a safe place to start and worst case there will be rocker clatter it wont be holding open a valve

usually after break in ill do a hot running adjustment to make sure nothing moved

I do the same. I've come across Sealed Power SR type lifters that held valve open at 3/4. 1/2 turn from 0 for me. If quiet normally leave it alone.

 

[DeCaff2007]

Been reading these replies.... to set everyone's mind at ease, lol, lifter preload is set at 1/2 turn, per the manual.

I've never had a cam lobe wipe out. What are the symptoms if that were to happen?

 

[PlayingWithTBI]

I've never had a cam lobe wipe out. What are the symptoms if that were to happen?

Either a worn out cam lobe or collapsed lifter (or both) will start tapping, at idle, when it wasn't before. When lifter preload goes out and starts tapping, stuff wears out.

Here's a worn down lifter (on the left) and a collapsed one (on the right). It gets collapsed when foreign material gets stuck in it and prevents it from "pumping up". Note how dished the worn out lifter is, all that turns into glitter and destroys the rest of the wear parts in the engine - like main and rod bearings

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Here's a worn down Flat Tappet Cam next to its replacement Roller Tappet Cam. If you look at the lobes and see a wider wear pattern on them, they're wearing out.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Hipster]

Been reading these replies.... to set everyone's mind at ease, lol, lifter preload is set at 1/2 turn, per the manual.

I've never had a cam lobe wipe out. What are the symptoms if that were to happen?

My mind is at ease. If this break in goes south. I'm not the one who has to pull and go through the engine again. Your lol is spot on.

Actually kicked back with a cold frosty listening to some easy listening. This might help put yours at ease.

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[DeCaff2007]

Yeah, he didn't go roller, and absolutely correct that you can crank a HFT cam into destruction. Valve lash or where he set it has crossed my mind as Comp and some other lifters call for 1/2 turn from zero and no more. He started a new thread leaving all the build info out.

I started a new thread because the build is finished. I'll be happy to dig up all my orders from Rock Auto and/or Summit Racing and post a list of parts, if anyone is interested.

Now, it's on to troubleshooting.

 

[DeCaff2007]

I managed to get out to the garage last night with the intention of completing the engine break-in, but I wanted to verify TDC with the timing mark at 0, so shoved a borescope in cyl #1 and turned the engine by hand. It's dead on perfect.

Turned the key - it fired right up and the only way I was shutting it down is if there was a fire. About 5 minutes in, it started backfiring at WOT and I noticed it took more throttle to sustain the 2500 RPM... only this time, the Wife came out and had this look of horror when she looked in the engine bay.

Cherry red hot headers and that same wiring harness from before caught fire this time.

Once again, I shut down, put the fire out, and contemplated my poor life decisions lol.

Before anyone says "I told you so", I know what I have to do, I've just been putting if off due to cost.

I have header wrap and new wires on order. There's no way around it now. I'm also trying to convince myself to pull the trigger on the DUI distributor suggested earlier.

While I'm at it, I'm also going to have to order new wires for my Trans Am, because that's what I've been stealing the wires from lol.

One last question here - Why is my timing mark always so far retarded at startup? I always have to twist the distributor CCW such that it seems I'm advancing the #1 wire all the way to the #2 cap terminal to get to 0° on the timing mark. This is with the timing wire on the firewall UNPLUGGED. Does that make sense to anyone?

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

Are you sure that the timing mark on the harmonic balancer is where it's supposed to be? Seems like that and the distributor are about all you haven't replaced....

 

[Schurkey]

I wanted to verify TDC with the timing mark at 0, so shoved a borescope in cyl #1 and turned the engine by hand. It's dead on perfect.

"IT'S dead-on perfect."

What "IT" are you talking about? Details matter! Is this regarding the alignment between the timing mark on the damper, and the timing indicator "0" marking?

Turned the key - it fired right up

Good sign.

About 5 minutes in, it started backfiring at WOT

Why on Earth are you whacking the throttle WFO during break-in?

Cherry red hot headers and that same wiring harness from before caught fire this time.

Refresh my memory about "that same wiring harness". WHERE is it? What does it control? How is it routed? Details matter, and I've read too many posts to remember the back-story on this engine.

How hot was the coolant temp?

I have header wrap and new wires on order.

You almost certainly don't need header-wrap. You need to make the damn thing RUN RIGHT.

When it runs right, the headers won't be that hot.

I'm also trying to convince myself to pull the trigger on the DUI distributor suggested earlier.

What's wrong with the distributor you have? If there's a problem, you need to fix or replace the thing. If not, you're wasting money on an already-over-budget project.

While I'm at it, I'm also going to have to order new wires for my Trans Am, because that's what I've been stealing the wires from lol.

There's a hundred electrical circuits in the engine compartment. What "wires" are you talking about? Is this regarding spark plug wires?

One last question here - Why is my timing mark always so far retarded at startup? I always have to twist the distributor CCW such that it seems I'm advancing the #1 wire all the way to the #8 cap terminal to get to 0° on the timing mark. This is with the timing wire on the firewall UNPLUGGED. Does that make sense to anyone?

No, that doesn't make sense. Time the engine per spec., and tighten the hold-down clamp properly. Re-check the timing AFTER you've tightened the clamp, to assure you haven't moved the distributor in the process of securing it. If it changes from that point, you need to find out why. Something is WRONG. Clamp not tight enough, clamp is bent, hold-down-clamp bolt is too long, distributor is failing, distributor gears are wearing, timing chain/sprockets wearing, etc. Virtually everything that would wear to cause ignition timing changes, causes the timing to retard (not advance.)

Ignition timing with electronic distributors is almost--not quite--"Set For Life". Get it right when the engine is built, and it should stay in time more-or-less for the life of the engine, if you disregard potential failure of the various gears, chain, and sprockets that drive the distributor, and perhaps needing intake gaskets or some other service work that requires screwing-up the distributor position.