Broken Lifter Spider Mounting Hole

[Majoraslayer]

So how would one go about about fixing this one? Took the one hand approach to tightening down these bolts, this one must have had some kind of gunk down in it because it had a little extra resistance until SNAP. Am I just screwed yet again?

 

[GoToGuy]

Well it's not structural, just light load retainer. I'd look into a " metalset " industrial epoxy, has metal in it , can be tapped.
Or, epoxy in a small stud as permanent fix, rather than removing, installing a bolt/ machine screw.
Yeah, I would do a stud , thinking about it.

 

[Majoraslayer]

I have a cheap wire welder, practically no welding skills, and a pocket full of desperation. I wonder if I could clean the surfaces and booger-weld it together with my wire welder? I don't *think* that bolt should have a lot of pressure on it once installed. A quick Google search suggest MIG welding cast iron, but I'm far from having enough welding skills to already have that kind of equipment around. At most I've used my cheap little welder to weld nuts onto broken bolts to get them out.

 

[Hipster]

I'm seeing a bunch of metal fragments sitting on top like somebodies been drilling. . I'd be more inclined to use a method similar to the way you fix a broken starter ear on a block..... brazed and re-tap, install a stud and nut. brazing allows it to be built up some. Cast doesn't mig good, even less chance of success gasless, requires pre-heat and a controlled cool down over a time frame so it doesn't crack alongside the weldment. Getting a mig tack weld to even stick is probably not going to happen and tends to blow the cast you're trying to weld to out of the weld pool. That little boss might be subject to quite a bit of vibration from feedback of constant lifter motion., the trick is not to bugger it up further, sometimes there's only one chance left.

 

[Road Trip]

So how would one go about about fixing this one? Took the one hand approach to tightening down these bolts, this one must have had some kind of gunk down in it because it had a little extra resistance until SNAP. Am I just screwed yet again?

Greetings Majorslayer,

I'm with @GoToGuy on this one. On your spider, in this one location you are
going to substitute a stud + nut for the bolt that originally secured it.

* Clean the remaining hole until everything in the vicinity is *completely* oil free,
squeaky clean.

* I'm assuming that there are still 2-3 complete threads at the bottom of the hole?
If so, gently retap the threads so that you can thread in the new stud. Clean again.

* Using a small amount of industrial-strength high-temp 2-part epoxy, fill the hole
and cover the lower stud threads with the epoxy, and thread the stud in until it just bottoms
out. Then fill in the rest of missing cast iron with the remaining epoxy.

* In order for the stud to set straight & with maxium strength, immediately temporarily
install the spider, with the bolts in the other holes, and the washer/nut on the stud.
Tighten hand-tight, plus just a scosh with a wrench.

* Let this dry completely. Disassemble, give it good visual inspection, and then reinstall
the spider one last time, torquing the stud/nut assembly to the same value as the
other spider bolts.

As GoToGuy said, structural forces aren't being sent through this fastener. (Not like
we are trying to fix a main cap bolt hole strippage or goofed block thread for a cylinder
head bolt.)

And of course, if you were take a photo of the repair this would be something that
could be used to help others down the road.

Fingers crossed you enjoy success. We're rootin' for ya!

 

[someotherguy]

The stud epoxy'd in there really does sound like the best plan. I'm not a welder but I've paid attention to several good ones and my immediate thought is you won't get the area hot enough for any penetration; you'll just have a booger in there that will pop loose and likely cause a disaster as it courses through the engine.

Richard

 

[Hipster]

Just a different perspective here, cast iron is porous, it can and does absorb oil and sweat it with heat changes. Not sure how long epoxy would stay put.

 

[Road Trip]

So how would one go about about fixing this one? Took the one hand approach to tightening down these bolts, this one must have had some kind of gunk down in it because it had a little extra resistance until SNAP. Am I just screwed yet again?

That little boss might be subject to quite a bit of vibration from feedback of constant lifter motion., the trick is not to bugger it up further, sometimes there's only one chance left.

Hello again Majorslayer,

Hipster is on the money when he says that the trick is to not bugger it up further. But
when I am operating under the 'last chance cloud', sometimes the extra stress just seems
to mess with me. So I find that by making sure that I already have a 'next level' fix in my back pocket,
only then can I destress a bit and give the situation my very best repair effort on the 1st try.

So even though I have fixed similar boo-boos by substituting a stud & nut for a bolt, let's say that
you tell me that you routinely run your motor into the rev limiter, and this truck is going to be
entered into the next Baja 1000?

No problem, I have a next-level robust fix lined up as a backup strategy. You see, people who really up
their valve spring pressures but for whatever reason want to stay with pressed in studs (instead of
upgrading to screw in studs) ...they instead pin them in place.

And when they are done, it looks like this:

You must be registered for see images attach

(credit: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech-general-engine/239311-pinning-rocker-studs-my.html)


And here's the results of a quick search so that you can get a better idea of what exactly
is involved in the pinning process. (GOOGLE SEARCH FOR ROCKER ARM PINNING KITS)

For what it's worth, I looked pretty carefully at your photo, and there looks to be adequate
room to perform this operation. Whether you would be comfortable doing this in situ or
not is a judgement call I can't make from over here in the Finger Lakes region of upstate NY. :0)

Slippery Slope Alert:

I don't know where you are with this particular project, but *if* you were planning on pulling
the motor anyway, then if you take the engine to a good machine shop they could deal with
this while performing other machine work to the engine. Given my own experience with
pinning rocker arm studs, this should absolutely be a 'forever fix', even for the Baja Bobs
out there. :0)

On the other hand, if you are trying to button this up so that you can commute back and forth
to work in order to feed the kids, then the stud/nut combo + 2-part epoxy into the properly prepped
block attachment point should work just fine.

Note: I've used a combination of cleaning solvents (lacquer thinner + a small torch + more lacquer
thinner, repeat until perfect) to get a spot of cast iron cleaned up beyond the 'clean enough to eat off of'
gold standard.

With a focused recovery effort, I'm thinking Crisis Averted...one way or the other, you got this.

Sending forever-fix vibes in your general direction.

Cheers --

 

[Majoraslayer]

Just a different perspective here, cast iron is porous, it can and does absorb oil and sweat it with heat changes. Not sure how long epoxy would stay put.

This is kind of a legit concern, and now that it's been mentioned I'm concerned about anything I fill it in with breaking loose and running through the engine. I think the torque on those bolts is only 18 ft-lbs according to one post I found, I may clean out the threads and see how much thread I actually have left down in there. The stud is definitely my best bet any way I go about it. If I have enough threads to hold in the stud, I may not even need the epoxy. It's just a question of how deep those threads actually go.

If I find out I don't have many threads to work with, I'm thinking of taking a large piece of plastic (like a thick garbage bag) with a tiny hole in it to stick around that boss, then possibly drilling and tapping it slightly further down if needed. That should help control metal shavings from getting into the valley, then I'll pass over everything with a plastic-wrapped magnet and clean the exposed area well before taking the plastic off. Before I do that though, is that ridge through the center of the valley actually some kind of oil passage, or would it just be some "meat" I could actually driil and tap into? I think I remember seeing that's how some of the retrofit kits work anyway, by adding drilled and tapped holes for studs on that ridge.

 

[Hipster]

This is kind of a legit concern, and now that it's been mentioned I'm concerned about anything I fill it in with breaking loose and running through the engine. I think the torque on those bolts is only 18 ft-lbs according to one post I found, I may clean out the threads and see how much thread I actually have left down in there. The stud is definitely my best bet any way I go about it. If I have enough threads to hold in the stud, I may not even need the epoxy. It's just a question of how deep those threads actually go.

If I find out I don't have many threads to work with, I'm thinking of taking a large piece of plastic (like a thick garbage bag) with a tiny hole in it to stick around that boss, then possibly drilling and tapping it slightly further down if needed. That should help control metal shavings from getting into the valley, then I'll pass over everything with a plastic-wrapped magnet and clean the exposed area well before taking the plastic off. Before I do that though, is that ridge through the center of the valley actually some kind of oil passage, or would it just be some "meat" I could actually driil and tap into? I think I remember seeing that's how some of the retrofit kits work anyway, by adding drilled and tapped holes for studs on that ridge.

Retro fit lifters have their own fixed link bars and don't require the hold down plate. Also pretty good money. I've have had mobile welders come braze or tig stuff for me. It maybe be an option. I'm pretty well versed in Mig and have a couple of my own machines but sometime your just out of your realm. Not sure if that's passage is an oil passage or not. With that being said, I've heard of guys with non-roller blocks talk about drilling and taping that area to bolt down a vortec style hold down, but never came up with any follow up info if it actually worked and/or created other issues.

If this was external, I would be saying go for it, but internally, idk, a small chunk if it happened to come loose. floating around could chew something else up and it's constantly in a wet environment where you can't easily put eyes on it.

Road trip mentioned a torch, You have to cook the oil out of the porosity, takes several attempts.