Broken Lifter Spider Mounting Hole

[Road Trip]

bearing mount?

Loctite Kleen 'N Prime is how to ensure that the metal surfaces are ready so that you
can get the full functionality of Loctite's Red Stud & Bearing Mount: (Kleen-'n-Prime)

...Just be absolutely sure before you use this stuff that you really mean it.

 

[Hipster]

Loctite Kleen 'N Prime is how to ensure that the metal surfaces are ready so that you
can get the full functionality of Loctite's Red Stud & Bearing Mount: (Kleen-'n-Prime)

...Just be absolutely sure before you use this stuff that you really mean it.

Gotcha, I wasn't exactly sure what you meant, Have used it to do studs,. I know with quite few there are very specific prep procedures/products, some 2 part epoxies have accelerators that can be used for different circumstances etc. Some epoxies I've had luck with some I haven't, some has been OEM labeled so no telling, and have had Reps in the shop doing demos that couldn't get their own products work right. Biggest thing I've found with 2 component epoxies is fresh stock. Never had a lot of luck with ones claiming to be able to be drilled and tapped or withstand gas. So I may be just a wee bit biased. Loctite is one of the ones who's stuff generally performs as expected. The metalset might be fantastic stuff and suitable, I'm just a bit gun shy for this situation. Never heard of or used it. If the Op has a means to move the engine being it's out, I'd kinda make some phone calls, visit the local vo-tech, Welding instructor may be willing to use it as a lesson/demonstration of real world application, and cost very little.

 

[Majoraslayer]

We have a vo-tech here, but the classes stay so backed up with projects from the community that it's a dead end. I also tried posting on Facebook to find a welder that might be able to fix it, but instead of finding anyone competent enough to know what the fix would be, they were asking ME if it could be TIG welded or what have you. I need a welder that knows how to fix it, not someone I can instruct how to fix it. If I knew that, I'd just fix it. Like with most things, my community is a bust when it comes to finding a high skilled welder for precision jobs, all of those move away where the better jobs are.

Earlier I also overtorqued and broke a head bolt because I found out my torque wrench somehow got damaged and no longer clicks, so the whole block (or brand new $350 head) is probably cracked. I'm going to take that off, inspect it, and if I find a crack I'm probably just going to haul the entire truck to the dump and give it up. Even then I guess it's a crapshoot whether I warped the block when I welded a nut onto the broken bolt to get it out of the block. At this point it's basically ruining my entire life.

 

[Road Trip]

Gotcha, I wasn't exactly sure what you meant, Have used it to do studs,. I know with quite few there are very specific prep procedures/products, some 2 part epoxies have accelerators that can be used for different circumstances etc. Some epoxies I've had luck with some I haven't, some has been OEM labeled so no telling, and have had Reps in the shop doing demos that couldn't get their products work right. Biggest thing I've found with 2 component epoxies is fresh stock. Never had a lot of luck with ones claiming to be able to be drilled and tapped or withstand gas. So I may be just a wee bit biased. Loctite is one of the ones who's stuff generally performs as expected. The metalset might be fantastic stuff and suitable, I'm just a bit gun shy for this situation. if the Op has a means to move the engine being it's out, I'd kinda make some phone calls, visit the local vo-tech, Instructor may be willing to use it as a lesson/demonstration of real world application, and cost very little.

You made some good points about having to Trust, But Verify *everything* that is more complicated than
rock, paper, scissors these days. For example, prior to Covid if I purchased some 2-part epoxy it just worked.

Now, in the past couple of years I've bought 2-part epoxies that didn't even set
up correctly? As it turned out, due to the supply chain issues I was buying old shelf
stock, and the chemicals were too old to work correctly? Personally, I've gone from
blind faith in good epoxy to the 'I'll believe it when I see it mindset.' It's incredible,
for anymore when I'm talking to someone I feel compelled to completely hedge my
bets when it comes to buying 2 different items and having them interoperate as advertised?

Anyway, I agree that Loctite is still pretty reliable, and JB Weld still seems to work. (As long
as I don't buy it in a store where the product is covered in 1/8" of dust. :0)

Speaking of trusting stuff, I did a little more pondering on @Majoraslayer 's situation, and
I think I've actually come up with a little more insurance. You see, on military aircraft we
had all manner of hardware that absolutely could not vibrate loose in flight, and even the
most careful of torquing didn't provide enough of an insurance policy. So I'm going to
propose that he safety wire the nut on the stud to the nearest bolt head on the spider, in this
manner:

You must be registered for see images attach

@Majoraslayer, conceptually safety-wiring is easy to understand. In order for one fastener to loosen,
it is physically wired to a sister bolt in such a way that the sister bolt will have to be tightened for the loosening to occur. (!)
And vice versa. This way, both bolts are physically hardwired into a perfect mechanical standoff. For what it's worth, this method
has never, ever let me down.

So, clean threads > Loctite prep > install new stud > install nut & torque to 18 ft-lbs > safety wire nut
to nearest spider bolt > Enjoy.

Don't give up. Stop, regroup, re-attack. If you've chopped down the Money Tree, stop & lick your wounds while waiting for the
tree to grow back from the roots. :0)

Remember, Quality is the Constant, and Time is the Variable.

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Cheers --

 

[Hipster]

Earlier I also overtorqued and broke a head bolt because I found out my torque wrench somehow got damaged and no longer clicks, so the whole block (or brand new $350 head) is probably cracked. I'm going to take that off, inspect it, and if I find a crack I'm probably just going to haul the entire truck to the dump and give it up. At this point it's basically ruining my entire life.

Don't chuck the truck! Vo tech was just an idea , seems you investigagted it. Torque wrenches sometimes crap out. Doubt it damaged the head.

 

[Majoraslayer]

Don't chuck the truck! Vo tech was just an idea , seems you investigagted it. Torque wrenches sometimes crap out. Doubt it damaged the head.

I really hope you're right, I need to catch a break that isn't something literally breaking for a change lol

 

[tayto]

how much thread is there below the part that broke off? a good rule of thumb is whatever the diameter of the bolt is, this is how deep the bolt needs to be engaged in the thread..so 5/16 diameter, 5/16 deep. its possible you could drill down a bit more and tap with a a bottoming tap or cut off the end of a normal tap. I would also file the end of the bolt flat to get the most thread engagement

EDIT: be aware there is an oil gallery under those bosses. if you drill can use red loctite to seal, but cleaning out the gallery will be required

 

[Hipster]

You made some good points about having to Trust, But Verify *everything* that is more complicated than
rock, paper, scissors these days. For example, prior to Covid if I purchased some 2-part epoxy it just worked.

Now, in the past couple of years I've bought 2-part epoxies that didn't even set
up correctly? As it turned out, due to the supply chain issues I was buying old shelf
stock, and the chemicals were too old to work correctly? Personally, I've gone from
blind faith in good epoxy to the 'I'll believe it when I see it mindset.' It's incredible,
for anymore when I'm talking to someone I feel compelled to completely hedge my
bets when it comes to buying 2 different items and having them interoperate as advertised?

Cheers --

Actually quite a bit of use of epoxies in auto body. Seam sealers, Panel bond, plastic repair for doing bumpers etc. Quick set crazy glue type stuff, foams expanding and hard set etc. A ton of different stuff and no shortage of different brands. I- Car came forth because almost everbody was having issues with almost all of it quite a few years ago. It is it's own class now. Long story short Unopened in original packaging 1 year shelf life then don't even bother. Open catridges sealed with the plastic plugs, 30 days max and in the trash. There are still products out there that don't perform quite right for the intended application but 90% of the issues went away keeping up with the dates. I used used seam sealers over the 30 day mark with seemingly little issue, foam or plastic repair after 30 that never set, and panel bond/structural adhesives I'm not taking a chance. Alot of those airframe construction techniques are already in bodyshops with similar products. Ford 150 aluminum body, all rivets and structural adhesives and foamed inside of certain parts of the structure. Lots of use on steel bodys, structural adhesiives clamped and spot welded through. Whether rivets or weld/boding techniques there has to be some form of mechanical attachment in play. never is adhesive / epoxy used standalone. Started trickling down from aircraft 20+ years ago.

 

[GoToGuy]

Structural adhesives bonded aircraft structures starting 40 years ago, and they have only gotten better. Many high end autos now use epoxy and structural adhesives. Look at the wings on large aircraft the VG's or "Vortex Generators" on aircraft skin surfaces smooth and control airflow over surface. There held in place with adhesives, at over 600 miles per hour. Hy-Sol was a brand name. 3M structural, etc.
It really is space age materials.

 

[95burban]

I’ve drilled and epoxied a crack on a BBC i had in jet boat. I know for a fact it has held for 12+ years. There’s a lot of industrial engines that are fixed with epoxy because of the cost of replacement.


Maybe You can use an old hold down and cut the arms off of it and stack it on top of the original, stacking it will make it stuff. You could even put a slight bow on it before you stack it to add pressure to the middle?