AC R-134a replacement

[udidwht]

Was recommended the following as a replacement for R-134a anyone have any experience with it? Apparently it can be used to charge without requiring the system to be vacuumed prior and requires no gauges to be used.

Environmentally Friendly Refrigerant and Automotive Fluid Products - Enviro-Safe, Inc

Enviro-Safe carries a full line of fluids, tools, and supplies including Refrigerant Support, Automotive Fluid, A/C Tools and Industrial Supplies.

www.es-refrigerants.com

Dash A/C… | Chaos Leaves Town

Update: May 2023 The Enviro-Safe product has done a great job plugging the leak as the dash AC still works fine. I do start the Dash AC on Max cool for ~15 minutes but after it is outputting very cold air, than I can just operate it normally. See article below... August 2022: It's strange,

chaos.goblinbox.com

 

[1998_K1500_Sub]

Was recommended the following as a replacement for R-134a anyone have any experience with it?

Why do you want to replace the R134a?

There's been discussion on GMT400 about using R152a as a replacement for R134a. See the posts in this thread (which does cover other topics, but R152a is discussed), and perhaps elsewhere:

Sanden 4440 install

Hello all, New member and gmt400 owner here. I need a little help with the ac compressor install I did today. I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this, so I apologize ahead of time if it's not. Getting to the issue at hand. I have a 1997 chevy k1500 5.7. I installed a new sanden...

www.gmt400.com

Apparently it can be used to charge without requiring the system to be vacuumed prior and requires no gauges to be used.

Well... I would always vacuum / evacuate the system (even if it was already functional and devoid of moisture) so that it contains but one refrigerant, and not some mix of two or more refrigerants, or refrigerant and air or some other tramp gas. If the system was ever open to the atmosphere, vacuum / evacuation is mandatory to remove the moisture and other gases ("air"... nitrogen, oxygen, etc.)

Get gauges. When the system isn't working as you expect / like, or you want to confirm the system is operating as it should, you'll want to know and possibly report (here) the pressures.

 

[udidwht]

Why do you want to replace the R134a?

There's been discussion on GMT400 about using R152a as a replacement for R134a. See the posts in this thread (which does cover other topics, but R152a is discussed), and perhaps elsewhere:

Sanden 4440 install

Hello all, New member and gmt400 owner here. I need a little help with the ac compressor install I did today. I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this, so I apologize ahead of time if it's not. Getting to the issue at hand. I have a 1997 chevy k1500 5.7. I installed a new sanden...

www.gmt400.com

Well... I would always vacuum / evacuate the system (even if it was already functional and devoid of moisture) so that it contains but one refrigerant, and not some mix of two or more refrigerants, or refrigerant and air or some other tramp gas. If the system was ever open to the atmosphere, vacuum / evacuation is mandatory.

Get gauges. When the system isn't working as you expect / like, or you want to confirm the system is operating as it should, you'll want to know and possibly report (here) the pressures.

No particular reason other than this seems easier route to get the system back online. It (Enviro-Safe) has the advantage of not having to vac the system prior to it's use.

With R-134a the following chart would be used as guide for pressures...

R-134a System Pressure Chart - AC Pro

A/C PRO is the easy DIY car A/C repair that saves time & money. This simple fix recharges the R-134a (freon), stop leaks & gets your car A/C cold again.

www.acprocold.com

 

[1998_K1500_Sub]

No particular reason other than this seems easier route to get the system back online. It (Enviro-Safe) has the advantage of not having to vac the system prior to it's use.

Yeah, that's simply a Poor Idea in general and certainly if the system's been opened to the atmosphere, for at least the reasons I cited prior.

 

[L31MaxExpress]

Yeah, that's simply a Poor Idea in general and certainly if the system's been opened to the atmosphere, for at least the reasons I cited prior.

If nothing else air is non condensable and will drive the pressures up resulting in less cooling.

 

[udidwht]

Yeah, that's simply a Poor Idea in general and certainly if the system's been opened to the atmosphere, for at least the reasons I cited prior.

I brought it up due to the link I added and the ES site both saying the system didn't require it with the ES charge.

I've asked them if vacuuming prior would be an issue but waiting for a response back for ES.

As for any oil needing to be added. Didn't get much from when I cracked the drier bottle to evacuate the system but I've not attempted to drain the condenser. Left it sitting on the bike rack on the back of RV hitch. Any idea how much may remain in the condenser?

 

[smdk2500]

With air in the system I would see very poor if any cooling, very high discharge pressures.

Slightly different application but I had a ****** unit come in shutting down for high discharge pressure. Found the system running 450 psi on the high side. Guy had recent work done. System had 5 lbs refrigerant in the system. The system holds 14. Found that whoem ever did the work didn't vacuum the system down after repairs they just charged it. It must have shut down and they bled it off till it ran. Got to 100 degrees outside and wouldn't run. Recovered the refrigerant new drier and recharged with proper amount of refrigerant and it ran like a dream.
Moral of the story you open the system vacuum it down. Get everything out of there you can.

EDIT apparently r e e f e r is censored.

 

[Jeepwalker]

R134 is pretty cheap. I would stick with it. OR canned air that contains 152, the same essential chemical as 134a (you need to verify the canned air you're considering has the same chemical) has been used by some, and it IS cheaper. But could contain other ingredients. Look up using Canned Air on youtube, there are a several videos. Personally I recommend sticking with 134a if that's what the system was designed for.

If it's an R12 system, and you want to convert, then there are a bunch of retrofits needed to make it perform best/right with a 134a conversion (see other threads).

 

[1998_K1500_Sub]

I brought it up due to the link I added and the ES site both saying the system didn't require it with the ES charge.

I've asked them if vacuuming prior would be an issue but waiting for a response back for ES.

You don't need an answer from them. Vacuum the system. Really. Period.

Go to AutoZone. "Rent" a vacuum pump. Buy an additional 1qt of vacuum pump oil because you might (probably will) need it. If you've never used a vacuum pump, mention it here because there are details to share. It's not rocket science but there are some things which should be known beforehand.

You can "rent" gauges from AutoZone too, I'm pretty sure, although their internal cleanliness (hoses, manifold) may be questionable due to prior use.

O'Reilly does (or once did) rent gauges and vacuum pumps too.

As for any oil needing to be added. Didn't get much from when I cracked the drier bottle to evacuate the system but I've not attempted to drain the condenser. Left it sitting on the bike rack on the back of RV hitch. Any idea how much may remain in the condenser?

The dryer desiccant will soak up some oil which may not drain. GM's GMT400 1998 FSM suggests adding 3.5oz of oil when replacing a dryer / accumulator. The same FSM suggests adding 1oz of oil when replacing the condenser. See attached. If your condenser is notably bigger than a stock GMT400 condenser, consider adding incrementally more.

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

I've used that product before. It works. It's propane and isobutane, IIRC.

I used it on an old beer kegerator. It already had a partial charge, so I didn't vacuum it and it worked fine for years after that.

It's more flammable than other refrigerants so you might want to weigh that in your decision.