GMT400 History

[HotWheelsBurban]

Don't know the answer, but GM typically does this on the last few years as they wind down production of current line up. Seems like 1500 trucks get first new body style, followed by SUVs/heavy trucks and lastly the vans. My theory is they must be using all of the spare parts they have left over and piece together trucks with that, LOL. That has changed on the last body styles, obviously.

So you had the "R/V" series, right? Those were carried over and GM designated them R/V so as not to confuse them with the C/K series they had just introduced. I "think" it was just 2500 series Suburbans and 2500/3500 trucks? Most of the ones I see were crew cabs. The V-series was the last solid front axle offered by GM. In retrospect, the R/V were kinda cool: "square body" with newer generation engines.

Yes I agree with you on the idea of using up the old truck parts supply in the factory assembly plants. I think that is part of why both my 99 Burbs were heavily optioned out. They are both LT trim, but I have seen other LTs that weren't that way. Maybe they weren't 99s?
The R/V Burb, Blazer and crew cabs are the best of both worlds. Square body ease of service with TBI motor and overdrive in most cases. My 90 R2500 Burb was a 5.7 with a turbo 400 and 4.10 gears in a semi floating axle. Didn't have a third seat either, only square Burb I've seen like that. The truck had ants in the cargo area when we got it, so we had to pull the carpet out and clean it. Looked black but was actually blue! And no floor sockets for the seat....
Has anyone on here seen the article and cover story in Texas Monthly magazine, back in the late 80s I think, on the Suburban being named "the national car of Texas "? They show an R/V Burb on the cover IIRC. I had this mag back in the day, but lost a lot of my memorabilia and family photos in a house fire a couple years ago.

 

[Pinger]

No, it was still a square body (the actual GM name for the generation is Rounded Line...go figure). SUVs and crew cabs weren't GMT400s until the '92 model year when they finally got the new bodystyle.

Whether it's true or not, I've heard multiple times that the main reason they took so long to change the bodystyle on the SUVs and crew cabs is because they were never meant to be. They were going to kill them off.I still don't know if I believe it, but it's the longest overlap of generations they've ever had like that, so it does make some sense.

There's a question I've been meaning to ask for ages and although I've not read right through this thread, the above quote from the previous page suggests I won't find an answer if I did.

My question is: Who bought Suburbans? Who were the marketed 'at'? Where were they 'priced' in the USA automotive market?

All I know from this side of the pond is from that video review of when it was launched and the testing crew ran square bodied Suburbans and were obviously interested to know if the GMT400 version was a worthy successor and would it fit their needs.
And, the rumour that they were bought/aimed at 'soccer moms' (and that Tony Soprano drove one!)

Where were they pitched relative to say a Caprice or Roadmaster wagon? They are/were at least as well equipped as those. Priced higher than them? Bought as primary or secondary (re household) cars? Was the domestic market a priority over commercial? Did they open up the truck based SUV to a new group of buyers who hadn't considered them before?

 

[SUBURBAN5]

I'm pretty sure they were marketed for everybody at one point. But from what I've read they were for the service/ military people back in the 30s / 40s as a panel truck. Then in 35 pushed a little as a people hauler. But im sure the gov along with service guys used it in the 50s and so on til like the 70s whenever Van's became more practical for the big boxy room. Military and gov continued to use it til this day. But I think the family market was pushed more in the mid 70s. Since the suburban got its iconic design in this gen. Having front and rear ac as an option, more room and capable power. 4 door design for easy entry. (Previous gens were only 2 or 3 doors). I think the 90s is whenever it became more or a modern comfortable design with the slick finish and standard features like safety/ computer being introduced. And once that came about I'm sure family's were finding it to be more of a practical vehicle for the fact in this time only other options were jeeps, Van's, station wagons,blazers/ other similar vehicles. They really stood out as a suv that was a truck. With the power of hauling people,towing what ever and having gas and diesel options. But in my opinion became a soccer mom rep car because a lot of wifes were wanting these for the family. While the husbands/guys were more into trucks. No offense to anybody just what I observed. Personally my dad bought my suburban back in 97 for safety, power, vacation traveling. We put 470000 miles on it and I still have it to this day. We got a Tahoe for my mom because she liked the size of that better and only needed 2 rows. They've always were expensive to buy but nowdays they make it sound like the suburban and the tahoe are the same vehicle, leaving the customer to deside do they want the long version or short.. marketing family's. I think movies/ celebrities help promote these vehicles along with the gov but they've truly evolved. Becoming more of a rich's man vehicle because of the hefty price and modern features that only back then we could dream about. Hopefully this shines a little light. Anybody else feel free to throw your input.

 

[df2x4]

There's a question I've been meaning to ask for ages and although I've not read right through this thread, the above quote from the previous page suggests I won't find an answer if I did.

My question is: Who bought Suburbans? Who were the marketed 'at'? Where were they 'priced' in the USA automotive market?

All I know from this side of the pond is from that video review of when it was launched and the testing crew ran square bodied Suburbans and were obviously interested to know if the GMT400 version was a worthy successor and would it fit their needs.
And, the rumour that they were bought/aimed at 'soccer moms' (and that Tony Soprano drove one!)

Where were they pitched relative to say a Caprice or Roadmaster wagon? They are/were at least as well equipped as those. Priced higher than them? Bought as primary or secondary (re household) cars? Was the domestic market a priority over commercial? Did they open up the truck based SUV to a new group of buyers who hadn't considered them before?

I can't shed any light onto what GM was thinking or who they intended to market the Suburbans to, but I can tell the story of why mine was bought new back in '97. My mom was driving a white Lincoln Towncar at the time. It was a great car, but she didn't like the fact that it was helpless in bad weather and it didn't always have enough seats to carry around family and friends at the same time. I was seven or eight years old at the time, so I always had friends tagging along places. My dad tried to convince her to get a Suburban for a couple years because he loved his trucks, but she didn't like any of the ones at the dealership where she usually bought vehicles. So one day her, my grandma and I loaded up in the Lincoln and went to a different GMC dealership across town. There sat this thing, kind of hidden in the back lot in one of the rows of new inventory.

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It was loaded, every available option for '97. Years later I ran a VIN lookup on it and found that it was a 1 of 1 option combo for that year, which is funny to me because my red truck is as well but it was custom ordered. Sticker price was just shy of $40K, which was steep for those days. It was considerably more expensive than the Lincoln was. But it sat eight and had 4WD, so it met the upgrade criteria. We saw it browsing and they brought it around for us to check out. After a few minutes of walk-around (and young me telling everyone it was rear wheel drive until you hit the 4-Hi button) my mom took it for a test drive and promptly smoked the rear tires turning out of the lot. I laughed pretty hard. Anyway mom liked it so she bought it, traded the Lincoln in that day. Somehow she put the 'burb in my dad's name even though he was out of town and nowhere near the dealership. He still wants to know how she did that...

So to make a long story short, I think the "soccer mom" marketing was definitely a real thing. It was my mom's primary vehicle, and it was definitely more expensive than comparable wagons at the time. We looked at a few. What SUBURBAN5 said is pretty accurate as well, my mom was steered towards the Suburbans because my dad always drove GM trucks.

 

[Pinger]

Thanks - great posts.
When I said 'commercial' what I had in mind was government (the term escaped at the time) as I see this size of SUV being used by US police a lot when I see news broadcasts.

So to make a long story short, I think the "soccer mom" marketing was definitely a real thing. It was my mom's primary vehicle, and it was definitely more expensive than comparable wagons at the time. We looked at a few. What SUBURBAN5 said is pretty accurate as well, my mom was steered towards the Suburbans because my dad always drove GM trucks.

Suburban sales do seem to be female driven to a degree for the family aspect. A couple of mentions of dad being more into trucks but could there have been a split there where some dads preferred a truck but others preferred the sophistication and prestige of a sedan for themselves? A blue collar white collar split that the Suburban straddled as a second vehicle on the family fleet?

Pricey then - especially relative to eg, Caprice and Roadmaster wagons. That would have been motivation enough for GM to push the Suburbans. Did it kill sales of the wagons?

At around the same time, Range Rovers were pushing the idea of a plush, premium high(ish) built 4WD upmarket into pricier territory. Did GM see that and decide they wanted some of that too? Then pushed it further with Cadillac branding?
(The original Range Rovers in the early 1970s were aimed at the wealthy farmer and country squire horsey shooting set as a vehicle that could be used on the farm/estate but it not be out of place turning up at the opera of an evening. It took a little while before they started loading them with luxury (the originals had hose down friendly rubber mat interiors - no carpet) and selling to those who never left cities. Range Rovers were capable but no match for a Suburban on space or towing. Luxury became their thing and quite elitist - in a way that the Suburban seems to have avoided).

 

[SUBURBAN5]

I feel like the interior and luxury for the suburban took off when they renamed gmc suburban to gmc yukon xl and introducing the Cadillac " suburban" Escalade esv. And started to differentiate the 3 to the point of today. But each gen features fell to the chevy while gmc and Cadillac up there interiors to go against other luxury SUVs and like range rovers, BMW, Mercedes, and other foreign SUVs. Also at one point suburban was the only suv in the world to offer 3 rows of seats. Vs nowdays it's pretty common for most SUVs of all classes to have 3 rows. I think they did that to compete against suburban but then again its size is unmatched (not including ford). Not sure about commercials but some vids on YouTube is funny to watch watching the suburban be showed off road or in construction zones being advertised as rugged for the gmt400

 

[df2x4]

Did it kill sales of the wagons?

It definitely didn't help. The option for 4WD in the Suburbans was the main advantage over the wagons for us at the time.

At around the same time, Range Rovers were pushing the idea of a plush, premium high(ish) built 4WD upmarket into pricier territory. Did GM see that and decide they wanted some of that too? Then pushed it further with Cadillac branding?

Probably a similar marketing strategy. As mentioned above there was also the Yukon Denali, which was basically a GMC-badged Escalade.

Not sure about commercials but some vids on YouTube is funny to watch watching the suburban be showed off road or in construction zones being advertised as rugged for the gmt400

My dad took our Suburban through the mud at a construction site the first time he drove it. I don't remember his exact words but it was something along the lines of "let's see if this thing was worth the money." We didn't get stuck, he was impressed. Mom was not amused by the mud on it when we brought it home.

 

[SUBURBAN5]

My dad took our Suburban through the mud at a construction site the first time he drove it. I don't remember his exact words but it was something along the lines of "let's see if this thing was worth the money." We didn't get stuck, he was impressed. Mom was not amused by the mud on it when we brought it home.[/QUOTE]

Reminds me of my dad. I remember he would always smoke the back right tire. Which I thought was funny/cool. While doing a right turn. Mom would get mad but eventually got used to it. Whenever the ac went out we had all the windows down and I would sit next to the passenger rear door just to hear the sound of rubber spinning.lol

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

I think that the minivans contributed more to the demise of the station wagon than sport utilities did. But if you need a " people hauler" and your family is like mine in that the people to be hauled are big and tall, what y'all fit in is what gets bought if there's a choice.
That's why Suburbans (and Carryalls, back when they were called as such)were popular with road crews and other commercial users. Burbs have been in the oil business since there have been Burbs. If you're moving a crew from site to site, and their gear, there wasn't much else besides the IH Travelall that would get it done.
Then as people started getting travel trailers and discovered the Burb properly equipped is a great tow rig, that sold them more. The first Suburban I was around much belonged to the parents of a third grade friend, who bought it to tow a travel trailer. Mom drove it in Houston (this was in the 70s) and took the class on field trips. She got a bunch of us in that 74 Burb and the 454 moved us well!
Back then the only dually trucks you saw were in the country or in the warehouse district.
Then Burbs started getting a little bit fancier, just like pickups. And remember, crew cabs weren't a thing yet, not like they are now. The crew cabs you saw were most definitely work trucks!
Also,in the later 70s, regular family sedans were starting to get smaller....and I can vouch for the safety and comfort of a larger, more stable vehicle in urban traffic or road trips.
There's a lot of different factors that got people into trucks!

 

[frito-bandito]

Not GM but when @HotWheelsBurban said Carryall, it made me think of Travelalls. But I’ve always liked these.

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