Tuning vortec to run on as little sensors as possible

[Country79Girl01]

if you want simpler it will cost you big money https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-550-510k

Yor can have simpler and not cost a fortune

 

[Country79Girl01]

I'm not seeing your logic here at all. Seems like you fear a sensor malfunction for whatever trouble that causes but by deleting a sensor you go straight to the trouble you seek to avoid.
You can be pretty sure that if GM could have met its objectives in improving the Vortec beyond TBI with one fewer sensor, then it would have. GM dug into its coffers and funded what they thought was absolutely necessary - by necessity not choice.

Those are specific edge cases you are referring to. Forged pistons and (obviously) non-stock valve train in L31ME's case and with my smart - probably wouldn't have survived long enough to burn its valves without a KS.
Down-stream O2 sensors don't influence engine parameters, merely monitor cat efficiency so no positive gain to be had.
If it aint broke dont fix it. And if it is broke, fix it right.

If Chevy did things right then why in the hell did they put plastic parts on top of the engine. Hot metal and plastic not a good combination, they should have kept aluminum intake and they would have gotten better results on power and mileage. Plus the spider web under the plastic intake is prone to failure because of the intense heat. I'm replacing my plastic OEM intake with a aluminum intake on my 350 CI Vortec.

 

[Country79Girl01]

I'm not sure about the black box PCM's, but at least on an E38, the rear O2's do have an effect on LTFT. They can be effected by clogged up cats or bad rear O2 sensors and cause terrible fuel mileage. When you delete the rear O2's, you are basically telling the ECU that they are failed and it stops letting them influence the AFR trims, so it doesn't hurt a cat deleted exhaust to delete the rear O2's, but the rear O2's DO have an impact on the fuel trims if they are present and not failed.

You can delete the rear 02 sensors and remove the cats and you replace the cats with better flow through cats you will increase your mileage and your power. Rear 02's can be deleted from the ecu and your computer won't even know they are gone. Your engine will run better and no codes.

 

[Scooterwrench]

If you want fewer sensors but still like the trouble free operation and fuel economy of CCFI then maybe the Holley Sniper system may be a good choice for you. I think you can use your existing fuel pump and distributer. Most of the sensors are built into the throttle body with the exception of the CTS and O2 sensor. It would require an intake man. change but that's not a bad thing. There are a few parameters you have to program in when setting it up but after that it learns your driving style and adjusts fuel and spark timing. You can custom tune it also if you want to play with it.
Pros,it is compact and self learns.
Cons,it ain't cheap,requires a manifold change and if any parts fail you have to get them from Holley and they don't offer Vaseline.
Here's what I've done and it maybe a consideration for you.
Buy all the sensors the engine needs to run,you don't need buy them all at once,and put them on a shelf then when one fails you have it on hand.

 

[Dropped88]

FYI because I install many of those holley snipers at work, The sensors on the holley are gm style and are replacable from parts store option

I have a cheat sheet too.

CTS Sensor: Standard Motor Products TX3
TPS Sensor: Standard Motor Products TH191
IAC Motor: Standard Motor Products AC416
WBO2 Sensor: Bosch 17025

Only one not replaceable over counter is the IAT which is built into the unit but it wouldn't leave you stranded

 

[L31MaxExpress]

If Chevy did things right then why in the hell did they put plastic parts on top of the engine. Hot metal and plastic not a good combination, they should have kept aluminum intake and they would have gotten better results on power and mileage. Plus the spider web under the plastic intake is prone to failure because of the intense heat. I'm replacing my plastic OEM intake with a aluminum intake on my 350 CI Vortec.

I have only ever seen one plastic plenum fail and it was from a backfire caused by a leaking spider. The upgraded spiders are perfectly reliable. That being said GM did make a cast iron/alumimum version of that intake with injectors on the outside of it. It requires a lot of tuning to make it work. The OE spiders gave the engineers a way to point the injectors and fuel spray at the back of the intake valves helping make the engine run more smoothly and deliver better fuel mileage. You have to add a ton of transient fuel to make the marine manifold run correctly especially with a cold engine. Just about every vehicle made in the past 20 years has a plastic intake manifold and have better performance because of it.

Marine manifold

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Inspection camera view through the OE spider injector port.

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[Hipster]

If GM could effectively run the engine fine w/o a sensor or two, they would have done it. So would Toyota and others. In the early CCC ECM days, the first year or two, they didn't have knock sensors. A few sensors were added for more power, economy & longevity. A buddy of mine used to do EGR & computer deletes on his vehicles for years. They'd run like crap and get terrible mileage. He was always fiddling with tuning the carbs or choke issues. For the last 15-20 years now he leaves his DD vehicles' computers as-is, LOL.

But for overlanding, I can see how it would be good to know how to bypass certain systems.

I have a buddy that does the same thing, removes all the electronics and emissions equipment and can't ever quite get them running right after that.

 

[Hipster]

I have only ever seen one plastic plenum fail and it was from a backfire caused by a leaking spider. The upgraded spiders are perfectly reliable. That being said GM did make a cast iron/alumimum version of that intake with injectors on the outside of it. It requires a lot of tuning to make it work. The OE spiders gave the engineers a way to point the injectors and fuel spray at the back of the intake valves helping make the engine run more smoothly and deliver better fuel mileage. You have to add a ton of transient fuel to make the marine manifold run correctly especially with a cold engine. Just about every vehicle made in the past 20 years has a plastic intake manifold and have better performance because of it.

Almost everything has a plastic intake these days. Not really an issue unless physically damaged, I cracked one doing an engine R&I years ago on a frame swap collision job.

I think Trick Flow, Comp, or one of those Co's does large plemun single planes for their heads and Holley does some in plastic as well.

 

[L31MaxExpress]

Almost everything has a plastic intake these days. Not really an issue unless physically damaged, I cracked one doing an engine R&I years ago on a frame swap collision job.

I think Trick Flow, Comp, or one of those Co's does large plemun single planes for their heads and Holley does some in plastic as well.

AFR Titan is the one you are speaking of, IIRC. They have a 2-piece design. It is possible to remove and replace the plenum portion without losing coolant or moving the distributor. They have a dual plane and single plane with the same base. I have a buddy that drives to the track with the dual plane and in 10 minutes has a single plane. Do npt go looking for a new one though. AFR quit making them in about 2018/2019 and even if you find a used one the rubber gaskets are nearly impossible to find because AFR quit making them too.

 

[Hipster]

AFR Titan is the one you are speaking of, IIRC. They have a 2-piece design. It is possible to remove and replace the plenum portion without losing coolant or moving the distributor. They have a dual plane and single plane with the same base. I have a buddy that drives to the track with the dual plane and in 10 minutes has a single plane.

How cool is that!