Brakes for towing

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Schurkey

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The brake pad and rotors checked out and they are good.
Did you ever bother to verify that the rear brakes work?

Do you have access to a scan tool so you can flush the old brake fluid?


How about the calipers? Pistons not "sticky"? Caliper body "floats" on it's mounting pins?

Define "checked out" and "good". HOW did you "check out" the parts? What criteria did you use to determine that they're "good"?

I think what I’m going to do as someone mentioned is to add the nbs master cylinder (watched some videos and looks super easy to do).
Easy to do...sure.

Screwing up the master cylinder bore to wheel cylinder bore ratio is unlikely to get you what you want. You'll lose hydraulic advantage, and so you'll have to push the brake pedal even harder to get the truck to stop.

If the so-called "NBS" master cylinder has the same, or nearly the same bore as the existing master cylinder, then there'll be no difference in braking power or braking feel at all, unless the old master was defective. In which case, you'd save some labor and the cost of some adapters by just installing a correct master cylinder that works properly.

I also am thinking to add the braided stainless steel brake lines but I’m having trouble finding the right match for my vehicle. I’m guessing those are pretty easy to change out ?
Worst part is getting them unscrewed from the metal tubing at the frame rail bracket without wrecking the metal tubing. After that, they're easy.

MOST "braided stainless" brake hoses don't fit properly. The OEM hoses have a long metal section that assures clearance to the suspension components. The only company I know of that makes their "braided stainless" hoses with a similar metal section is Classic Tube.

www.summitracing.com/parts/CST-SBH6055


Unless your current hoses are DEFECTIVE, replacing them with new hoses will not affect brake POWER, but can improve brake pedal "feel".

Seems to me that you're too focused on "upgrades" and not nearly attentive enough to finding out what's wrong with your existing brakes. Which means that unless you happen to coincidentally "upgrade" the part(s) that are defective, you're unlikely to get the results you're looking for.
 
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92k2500454

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Did you ever bother to verify that the rear brakes work?

Do you have access to a scan tool so you can flush the old brake fluid?


How about the calipers? Pistons not "sticky"? Caliper body "floats" on it's mounting pins?

Define "checked out" and "good".


Easy to do...sure.

Screwing up the master cylinder bore to wheel cylinder bore ratio is unlikely to get you what you want. You'll lose hydraulic advantage, and so you'll have to push the brake pedal even harder to get the truck to stop.


Worst part is getting them unscrewed from the metal tubing at the frame rail bracket. After that, they're easy.

MOST "braided stainless" brake hoses don't fit properly. The OEM hoses have a long metal section that assures clearance to the suspension components. The only company I know of that makes their "braided stainless" hoses with a similar metal section is Classic Tube.

www.summitracing.com/parts/CST-SBH6055


Unless your current hoses are DEFECTIVE, replacing them with new hoses will not affect brake POWER, but can improve brake pedal "feel".

Seems to me that you're too focused on "upgrades" and not nearly attentive enough to finding out what's wrong with your existing brakes. Which means that unless you happen to coincidentally "upgrade" the parts that are defective, you're unlikely to get the results you're looking for.
I’m sorry I’m not a mechanic sir some of the stuff you say to me is a whole different language. The only way I know how to check the drums is from what someone said on here with a temp gun and I currently don’t have one.
The reason why I thought master cylinder is because there’s plenty of videos showing how to change that out so I could do it. There’s not that many videos of “going over the brakes” but a whole lot of changing out to upgrades so that’s why I went that route.
 

Schurkey

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I’m sorry I’m not a mechanic sir some of the stuff you say to me is a whole different language. The only way I know how to check the drums is from what someone said on here with a temp gun and I currently don’t have one.
Get one. Buy one, borrow from a friend.

Grab a spray bottle of water, work the brakes hard from highway-speed to a stop. The rear brakes should be BLAZING HOT. Spray a little water on them, see if it boils off. Or put your hand next to the wheel, see if there's heat radiating off the drums. Neither of those is as good as a temp-gun, but it's better than nothing.

The reason why I thought master cylinder is because there’s plenty of videos showing how to change that out so I could do it. There’s not that many videos of “going over the brakes” but a whole lot of changing out to upgrades so that’s why I went that route.
That's about the same logic as losing something in a dark alley, but searching under a streetlight because it's easier to see.

Brakes are IMPORTANT. If you can't do this yourself, if you're unwilling to research using a service manual (available for free download with the links posted on this site) then you need to hire a professional.
 

1998_K1500_Sub

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I also am thinking to add the braided stainless steel brake lines but I’m having trouble finding the right match for my vehicle. I’m guessing those are pretty easy to change out ?

They *can* be easy. If the threaded fitting on the end of the brake hardline won't spin and allow you to remove the hose, then try spinning the hose (and integral female fitting) while holding the male fitting stationary. Spin the old hose off; spin the new hose on. This approach has worked out well for me more times than not. Oddly, almost every time (but one) the banjo fitting on the (new, replacement) hose ended up in proper alignment for the caliper after I spun the new hose on. Serendipity. YMMV.

@Schurkey makes a good point that not all have the aftermarket SS hoses are created equal. Mine were from Russell, which I bought from Summit, and they do not have the hardline he mentioned. I suggest you follow @Schurkey's vendor suggestion. Too, on my 1998 Sub, one set of OE fittings was metric and the other SAE (that took me some time to figure out), and I had to work around the problem.

Let's talk about NBS:

I have made positive comments about the NBS swap in this thread and elsewhere. What I didn't say is that I originally had the JB6 quick-take-up calibers and OE quick-take-up MC; I had at one time replaced the MC (with the same one) because they brakes performed so poorly (particularly in panic applications). It didn't help. I also swapped the calipers. It didn't help. Later, I changed to the NBS and JB7 calipers, and the brakes were much more responsive, particularly in panic situations. As @Schurkey hints, it's not completely evident that I didn't "fix" some other problem (e.g., the system needed a diligent bleeding?) along the way. Or did I "fix" some problem inherent to the quick-take-up system by removing it completely? Unfortunately, I don't know.

What is remarkable is that *so* many others seem to swear by the NBS upgrade, which adds credibility to the swap. Why it's better for them, or for me, I can't say... I certainly like to find and understand the root cause of any change in performance, but there are times when I don't have the time to run every experiment, in thorough fashion, to determine how any particular change made a particular difference. In my case, was it really just the NBS / JB7 calipers? Was it the fact I bleed the system umpteen times along the path from my OE JB6 brakes to the NBS/JB7? I can't say. But whatever happened, it's happened to me and it seems to have a lot of other people too. Call it mass hysteria. Call it psychological, snake oil, or herd mentality.
 

Schurkey

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They *can* be easy. If the threaded fitting on the end of the brake hardline won't spin and allow you to remove the hose, then try spinning the hose (and integral female fitting) while holding the male fitting stationary. Spin the old hose off; spin the new hose on. This approach has worked out well for me more times than not. Oddly, almost every time (but one) the banjo fitting on the (new, replacement) hose ended up in proper alignment for the caliper after I spun the new hose on. Serendipity. YMMV.
Once the old hose is off, heat the flare nut to break the rust-bond to the tubing. Lube with your choice of products. Once the tube nut is no longer seized to the tubing, I like to see if I can get a little anti-seize behind the tube nut so it can't rust to the tubing again. Sometimes, that works. Sometimes it doesn't, and the next time I try to remove it, the nut is seized again.

@Schurkey makes a good point that not all have the aftermarket SS hoses are created equal. Mine were from Russell, which I bought from Summit, and they do not have the hardline he mentioned.
My K1500 has Russell hoses. Had to "insulate" them with some extra rubber hose to keep 'em from rubbing on the upper control arms. There was some plastic protective sleeving on the hoses from Russell, but it wasn't long enough.
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Later, I changed to the NBS and JB7 calipers, and the brakes were much more responsive, particularly in panic situations. As @Schurkey hints, it's not completely evident that I didn't "fix" some other problem (e.g., the system needed a diligent bleeding?) along the way. Or did I "fix" some problem inherent to the quick-take-up system by removing it completely? Unfortunately, I don't know.

What is remarkable is that *so* many others seem to swear by the NBS upgrade, which adds credibility to the swap. Why it's better for them, or for me, I can't say... I certainly like to find and understand the root cause of any change in performance, but there are times when I don't have the time to run every experiment, in thorough fashion, to determine how any particular change made a particular difference. In my case, was it really just the NBS / JB7 calipers? Was it the fact I bleed the system umpteen times along the path from my OE JB6 brakes to the NBS/JB7? I can't say. But whatever happened, it's happened to me and it seems to have a lot of other people too. Call it mass hysteria. Call it psychological, snake oil, or herd mentality.
My working hypothesis--which remains unproven--is that the Low Drag calipers don't get the fluid flushed often enough. This leads to the caliper pistons getting "sticky" from debris/rust/scuzz in the caliper.

Low-drag calipers from JB5 brakes installed on my K1500. (Note metal section of OEM brake hose.)
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Accumulated crust on square-cut seal, partially scraped away (on the right side) with a fingernail. The left side of the seal still has crust/deposits on it.
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The Quick-Take-Up master cylinder has a third, huge bore and piston at the rear of the cylinder, along with a blow-off valve in the plastic reservoir preset to release pressure/volume into the reservoir at a certain (fairly low) pressure. This is supposed to provide a "gush" of low-pressure fluid to move the pistons/pads up to the rotor, then the small-diameter, high pressure section takes over to actually force the pads into the rotor to stop the vehicle. The small-diameter pistons have excellent hydraulic advantage to build high pressure (but low-volume) for good brake power.

Note gigantic piston at the rear of the cylinder, and how the casting is stepped to allow the huge bore.
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At the point where the contaminated/sticky/stiff caliper piston(s) and seal(s) require more pressure to move than the blowoff valve can accommodate, ALL the fluid from the third, huge, low-pressure/high volume chamber of the master cylinder is released (wasted) into the reservoir instead of moving the caliper pistons up against the rotors.

Therefore, the pistons don't move until the high-pressure part of the QTU master cylinder produces enough volume of fluid.
And this assumes that the calipers are properly "floating" on the mounting pins/sleeves. If they're not, only one pad is initially in contact with the rotor. The result is the common low, squishy pedal the GMT400s are known for.

Replacing the calipers (or merely cleaning out the rust and scuzz; and peeling the crust off of the square-cut seals and seal grooves should restore proper function to the calipers--and allow the pistons to move using the low-pressure/high volume third chamber of the QTU master cylinder.

Why this didn't work for you, I can't say. Maybe the blowoff valve in the master had gotten weak from over-use; or it wasn't rebuilt properly. Maybe the new calipers were as stiff as the old ones. Or maybe I'm just plain wrong about all this. (I don't think so...)

My point is that the two-chamber "NBS" master cylinder is a disaster with low-drag calipers that require the huge gush of low-pressure fluid from the third chamber of the QTU master cylinder, and unlikely to be an inherent improvement with conventional calipers--depending on the bore sizes of the "NBS" vs. OEM master cylinder.
 
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CNRED

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Something overlooked often. If front brake lines are original change them out. They will give problems, soft pedal and calipers that won't lift off the rotors at the most inopportune moment. Hydro boost will make symptoms apparent early.
 

jrsroadhauze

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Just completed front brake work on my 92 K1500. Replaced calipers with one ton (3500) units, Brembo pads and new SS hoses. Replaced Master cylinder with a 2002 C3500 unit with 1.48" bore size. Removed original ABS components. Major difference in braking!!
 

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Schurkey

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Just completed front brake work on my 92 K1500. Replaced calipers with one ton (3500) units, Brembo pads and new SS hoses. Replaced Master cylinder with a 2002 C3500 unit with 1.48" bore size. Removed original ABS components. Major difference in braking!!
Of course you have "better" braking. You have much larger caliper pistons for more force on the pads and rotors. The new pads may be more-aggressive, too.

You may have replaced defective hoses, and/or a defective ABS unit. Either of those could reduce braking power if defective.

The downside is that the K3500 calipers would have been used with a 1.25" bore, two-chamber master cylinder, and you've got a ~1.5" bore two-chamber master. The pedal will be higher, but it'll take more effort to stop than the 1.25 bore it should have. This may not be important now, but if your booster fails, you'll need strong legs.
 

Schurkey

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For the record, while the letters have varied a little over the years--JN, JB, JD and JF, the number following the letter has been reasonably consistent--a higher number means stronger braking power.

JN/JB3 are the weakest, JF9 the strongest.

The "3" brakes got a 1" (or metric equivalent) master cylinder bore, and the smallest caliper pistons.
The "5" and "6" brakes got a 1.125" bore master cylinder, and the same, larger-bore caliper pistons compared to "3".
The "3, 5, and 6" brakes came with low-drag calipers.

"7" and "8" brakes have a 1.25" bore master.

I don't know about "9".

"7, 8, and 9" brakes do not have low-drag calipers.
 
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