14 bolt FF service - brakes and lube job - a couple questions

[Reluctanse]

Well think back... did you spill your soup or not???

Fixed lol

 

[Reluctanse]

Word of caution/advice: Even if you have slip on drums, but they haven't been off for a long time, they will be difficult to remove. I coat the contact surfaces between the hub and drum with anti-seize, so they don't stick.

Yeah not super looking forward to it either way… it’ll be a fight I’m sure. Good call on the anti seize when reassembly comes.

 

[Schurkey]

1. All the aftermarket axle nut sockets I saw had four tabs to engage the slots in the nut. Problem is, the nuts on my '97 K2500 10.5" full-float axle had six notches. Which means you can line-up two tabs into two notches, but the other two tabs on the socket DON'T ALIGN with the notches in the axle nut, which prevents actual engagement of any tabs into notches. The "Official" GM "Special Tool" J-2222-C only has two tabs. Can align with nuts having four notches, or six notches. I suppose you could buy an aftermarket hub-nut socket, and cut off two of the tabs, so they don't prevent engagement of the remaining two.

2. The service manual says to tighten the nut to 50 ft/lbs while spinning the wheel the opposite direction you're turning the nut. Then back off 1/4 turn. Then tighten to 13 ft/lbs. Then turn nut to closest nut slot with the keyway on the axle stub. On my truck, that meant allowing a little free-play in the bearings.

3. Some axles had the axle shafts sealed with RTV Silicone. Some axles had the axle shafts sealed with a gasket. RTV Silicone--according to GM--is degraded by synthetic gear lube. I use a gasket on each axle shaft. Two of Fel-Pro # 55350. The rear cover gasket is Fel-Pro # 55063.

4. Hub bearing seal is Timken # 2081.

5. Yes, the outer hub bearing is held in with a snap-ring, and comes out from the seal-side of the hub. Opposite to typical wheel bearings.

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6. "Good luck" finding someone to turn 13" drums. No such thing around here. OTOH, this area is a machine-shop desert. There is ONE guy doing some race-engine machining; all the regular machine shops went out-of-business starting in the late '90s. Auto parts stores can turn smaller drums and rotors, but not the 8-lug stuff. Maybe where you are, there are more options.

 

[Reluctanse]

1. All the aftermarket axle nut sockets I saw had four tabs to engage the slots in the nut. Problem is, the nuts on my '97 K2500 10.5" full-float axle had six notches. Which means you can line-up two tabs into two notches, but the other two tabs on the socket DON'T ALIGN with the notches in the axle nut, which prevents actual engagement of any tabs into notches. The "Official" GM "Special Tool" J-2222-C only has two tabs. Can align with nuts having four notches, or six notches. I suppose you could buy an aftermarket hub-nut socket, and cut off two of the tabs, so they don't prevent engagement of the remaining two.

2. The service manual says to tighten the nut to 50 ft/lbs while spinning the wheel the opposite direction you're turning the nut. Then back off 1/4 turn. Then tighten to 13 ft/lbs. Then turn nut to closest nut slot with the keyway on the axle stub. On my truck, that meant allowing a little free-play in the bearings.

3. Some axles had the axle shafts sealed with RTV Silicone. Some axles had the axle shafts sealed with a gasket. RTV Silicone--according to GM--is degraded by synthetic gear lube. I use a gasket on each axle shaft. Two of Fel-Pro # 55350. The rear cover gasket is Fel-Pro # 55063.

4. Hub bearing seal is Timken # 2081.

5. Yes, the outer hub bearing is held in with a snap-ring, and comes out from the seal-side of the hub. Opposite to typical wheel bearings.

You must be registered for see images attach

6. "Good luck" finding someone to turn 13" drums. No such thing around here. OTOH, this area is a machine-shop desert. There is ONE guy doing some race-engine machining; all the regular machine shops went out-of-business starting in the late '90s. Auto parts stores can turn smaller drums and rotors, but not the 8-lug stuff. Maybe where you are, there are more options.

Surprising that with the gazillions of 14 bolts out there, there isn't a great 3rd party tool option. So, sounds like I need to plan to mod one if I go that route.

Good call out on getting drums turned, I'll have to call around and see what my options are, or plan to buy drums, which I hope I don't have to do...

Thanks for the good info..!

 

[454cid]

Surprising that with the gazillions of 14 bolts out there, there isn't a great 3rd party tool option. So, sounds like I need to plan to mod one if I go that route.

Good call out on getting drums turned, I'll have to call around and see what my options are, or plan to buy drums, which I hope I don't have to do...

Thanks for the good info..!

I'd bet they're out there. Lisle and Performance tool both make several styles. I've never had mine apart, so I can't say what my truck uses.

If you need new drums, you'll need to measure the hole diameter for the hub. There are two different sizes.

 

[Reluctanse]

So thinking about it a little more and doing some more reading here, I am realizing that I definitely have the infamous squishy brake syndrome, and need to get an ABS auto bleeder scan tool into my hands. The brakes need to be bled anyways... I should probably start here before I go replacing parts. But that said I also for peace of mind still need to at least look at the drum shoes, just so I know how much there is or isn't left there. At 170k they could be shot originals, or someone replaced them a reasonable period of time back and they are fine.... only one way to find out.

But first up I think, I need to bleed the brakes! Maybe replace the hoses while I do it. I dunno, seems like it makes sense. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Maybe I'll order this thing and give it a go? amazon.com/gp/product/B09YLBRCJ6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1XAUAAKQDT4ZG&psc=1

 

[Supercharged111]

Or bleed, go engage ABS a few times, and bleed again.

 

[Reluctanse]

Well some good news for the day - I think? I'm glad to see this anyways:

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Slip on drums, yay. So that means I don't need to f around with pulling the axles etc. at least. I'm sure it comes with its own set of challenges getting them off for the first time in forever, but should make inspecting/servicing less of a hassle.

That found going to focus on getting a good bleed done, then inspecting and I'll go from there, again before throwing parts at it.

Or bleed, go engage ABS a few times, and bleed again.

Thanks - worth a shot for sure!

 

[Schurkey]

Or bleed, go engage ABS a few times, and bleed again.

Be sure to activate ALL THREE CHANNELS, or you still have the potential for trapped air.

The ABS unit would bleed it's air into the rest of the system. It still has to be bled-out from there. There's the potential that air in the system would find it's way back into the ABS unit. The less time between activating the ABS and bleeding the system, the better.

 

[454cid]

Well some good news for the day - I think? I'm glad to see this anyways:

You must be registered for see images attach

Slip on drums, yay. So that means I don't need to f around with pulling the axles etc. at least. I'm sure it comes with its own set of challenges getting them off for the first time in forever, but should make inspecting/servicing less of a hassle.

That found going to focus on getting a good bleed done, then inspecting and I'll go from there, again before throwing parts at it.



Thanks - worth a shot for sure!

Why not inspect, then bleed? ....if you bleed first, you may inspect only to find out you need parts, and possibly re-bleed. I think I'd pressure wash the brakes with the drum off, and then regrease the contact points.