1ton-o-fun
Automotive Durability Tester
My head hurts.
Value of our trucks
- Thread starter J_lope82
- Start date
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Moparmat2000
I'm Awesome
This is just my observation from being on this rock for 52 years, I could be wrong but here goes. I think like anything else automotive related certain vehicles of all brands strike a chord with the buying public when brand new for whatever reason be it looks, utility, horsepower, whatever. Muscle cars in the 1960s and early 1970s before EPA emissions standards kicked in is a prime example.
So when these vehicles are new they sold in large quantities. People bought them and used them for their intended purpose as transportation, or in the case of pickup trucks for work use. When this stuff is 5-7 years old and the warranty is gone or close to it most owners would do a trade in.
It's just a used vehicle now. New car smell and excitement is gone. A lot of these get used and abused harder as older vehicles because the investment in it as a used vehicle is substantially less. Inexperienced younger drivers buy used for their first cars and tend to have wrecks. At about 10-12 years old, vehicles in the rust belt states are starting to show corrosion issues in the rockers, fenders, and floorboards. Junking a low mileage vehicle with severe rust issues up there is quite common.
By the time the remainder of the vehicles hit the 20-25 year mark, theres a large attrition rate. theres several examples of what's left. The first being the Low mileage (creme puff) ones that have led pampered lives still wear original paint and are generally well cared for. These are called "survivors". In the muscle car world these ARE the holy grail since muscle cars had a tendency to be modified from day 1 and driven into the ground so to speak, plus high rates of wrecks with street racing.
The second example is the nice daily driver. It's got some dings, scratches, paint fade and miles. It's been used like a well worn in pair of jeans. Not really abused but not fanatical care either. These are easier to find and most of what you see running about.
3rd is the poor condition one. It runs, but has been neglected to the point that it's a parts vehicle unless you got some emotional attachment to it. Can do most of the work yourself, or have deep pockets to fix it up.
This is just my observations with dealing with this old stuff. I remember when 15 year old beat to **** muscle cars were $500 cars running with a title. I almost bought a 1970 383 4 speed cuda convertible in 1989 for $1600. Those days sadly are long gone. I walked away because of the rust issues. AMD where were you then lol.
In my long winded way of saying this, these GMT400s just like anything else automotive, goes thru phases in its lifespan from new, to used, to junk, and once they arent seen in large numbers on the road, all of a sudden people find them again and say "hey" this a good looking vintage vehicle. I want one. Or the person who had one new, and decided they want another one, maybe they regretted selling the other one they had.
Back in the early 90s my parts getter was a 1971 C/10 custom. Good truck, it was what I wanna call a #2 condition truck. I swapped the 6 popper for a mild 350, and a muncie 4 speed. Doors were rotting on the bottom. And the cab was heading that direction too, ditto for the radiator support. I lived in N.J. at the time no rust free steel there, internet was not up and running. No real way to network to get rust free steel from somewhere else to repair it. I made it look decent, and sold it to buy my 94 silverado that I still have. Now I find out that you can now buy new cabs, beds, doors, tailgates, and everything else to rebuild one of these. At the time I had mine that replacement stuff did not exist, since this truck was built in large numbers between 1968-1972 and there was a resurgence in people wanting these again, the aftermarket responded with parts.
GMT400s were built in record breaking numbers from 1988 thru the 1990s. The reason for that was Dodge still had what was essentially a 1972 cab and frame design with several facelifts. The only thing that sold well from 1990 up was the 3/4 ,and 1 ton trucks with the Cummins diesel for farm and industrial use. The ford trucks were also an old dated design. The GMT400s however were revolutionary at the time. As an all mopar guy back then, I was completely wowed by this truck when it came out. GM finally got something really really good to replace the awful 73-87 rot boxes they built. They fixed the corrosion issues in those in the early 80s but those were still junk in my opinion. I live in Texas now, dry climate hardly any rust and I see people here fixing up the 73-87 C/10s. Being as I lived up north and saw these things fall apart in 5-7 years I still call em the rot box years. That's how bad of an impression they made on me.
GMT400s you dont see many on the roads anymore even here in west Texas. A lot of em in the salvage yards now though. Like worn out 25-30 year old muscle cars started to be restored and rose in value, the same is happening for these trucks. When I got back into muscle cars again back in 2008 I wanted another 68 dodge charger like I had as a teenager. I was shocked to find that prices were $3500 or more for what essentially was somebody else's stripped out parts car with a vin and a clear title. This thing was a gutted unibody with axles and a roof, and little else. A not quite complete basketcase. I hope it doesnt get that way with GMT400s that a numbers matching frame and stripped cab with clear title costing a couple grand. This may or may not happen when these things reach 50 years. It all depends on the attrition rate and what's left.
I am still amazed at the muscle cars people are still finding in garages under inches of dirt, or in barns, back yards etc. I know this isnt a clear cut answer except that as these get older and less clean examples are out there, it will start to drive up the values on the decent ones that are left, where that number goes is anybodies guess. These will probably be valued more in the rust belt states where clean rust free examples are all but non existant. These will become the garage/show queens that get put away 6 months out of the year because of the winter road salt and its effects.
When those clean rust free examples become harder to find, then the basket cases and picked over parts trucks will start to get hauled out of fields and backyards to be rebuilt. The aftermarket will gear up to make even more replacement pieces than is out there now because there is interest in these. I am now just waiting for exact duplicate 60/40 bench seat silverado light grey cloth repop covers to come out, since mine are starting to show some wear at 26 years. I want exact duplicate of OEM. Theres nothing yet.
Hope this helps
Matt
So when these vehicles are new they sold in large quantities. People bought them and used them for their intended purpose as transportation, or in the case of pickup trucks for work use. When this stuff is 5-7 years old and the warranty is gone or close to it most owners would do a trade in.
It's just a used vehicle now. New car smell and excitement is gone. A lot of these get used and abused harder as older vehicles because the investment in it as a used vehicle is substantially less. Inexperienced younger drivers buy used for their first cars and tend to have wrecks. At about 10-12 years old, vehicles in the rust belt states are starting to show corrosion issues in the rockers, fenders, and floorboards. Junking a low mileage vehicle with severe rust issues up there is quite common.
By the time the remainder of the vehicles hit the 20-25 year mark, theres a large attrition rate. theres several examples of what's left. The first being the Low mileage (creme puff) ones that have led pampered lives still wear original paint and are generally well cared for. These are called "survivors". In the muscle car world these ARE the holy grail since muscle cars had a tendency to be modified from day 1 and driven into the ground so to speak, plus high rates of wrecks with street racing.
The second example is the nice daily driver. It's got some dings, scratches, paint fade and miles. It's been used like a well worn in pair of jeans. Not really abused but not fanatical care either. These are easier to find and most of what you see running about.
3rd is the poor condition one. It runs, but has been neglected to the point that it's a parts vehicle unless you got some emotional attachment to it. Can do most of the work yourself, or have deep pockets to fix it up.
This is just my observations with dealing with this old stuff. I remember when 15 year old beat to **** muscle cars were $500 cars running with a title. I almost bought a 1970 383 4 speed cuda convertible in 1989 for $1600. Those days sadly are long gone. I walked away because of the rust issues. AMD where were you then lol.
In my long winded way of saying this, these GMT400s just like anything else automotive, goes thru phases in its lifespan from new, to used, to junk, and once they arent seen in large numbers on the road, all of a sudden people find them again and say "hey" this a good looking vintage vehicle. I want one. Or the person who had one new, and decided they want another one, maybe they regretted selling the other one they had.
Back in the early 90s my parts getter was a 1971 C/10 custom. Good truck, it was what I wanna call a #2 condition truck. I swapped the 6 popper for a mild 350, and a muncie 4 speed. Doors were rotting on the bottom. And the cab was heading that direction too, ditto for the radiator support. I lived in N.J. at the time no rust free steel there, internet was not up and running. No real way to network to get rust free steel from somewhere else to repair it. I made it look decent, and sold it to buy my 94 silverado that I still have. Now I find out that you can now buy new cabs, beds, doors, tailgates, and everything else to rebuild one of these. At the time I had mine that replacement stuff did not exist, since this truck was built in large numbers between 1968-1972 and there was a resurgence in people wanting these again, the aftermarket responded with parts.
GMT400s were built in record breaking numbers from 1988 thru the 1990s. The reason for that was Dodge still had what was essentially a 1972 cab and frame design with several facelifts. The only thing that sold well from 1990 up was the 3/4 ,and 1 ton trucks with the Cummins diesel for farm and industrial use. The ford trucks were also an old dated design. The GMT400s however were revolutionary at the time. As an all mopar guy back then, I was completely wowed by this truck when it came out. GM finally got something really really good to replace the awful 73-87 rot boxes they built. They fixed the corrosion issues in those in the early 80s but those were still junk in my opinion. I live in Texas now, dry climate hardly any rust and I see people here fixing up the 73-87 C/10s. Being as I lived up north and saw these things fall apart in 5-7 years I still call em the rot box years. That's how bad of an impression they made on me.
GMT400s you dont see many on the roads anymore even here in west Texas. A lot of em in the salvage yards now though. Like worn out 25-30 year old muscle cars started to be restored and rose in value, the same is happening for these trucks. When I got back into muscle cars again back in 2008 I wanted another 68 dodge charger like I had as a teenager. I was shocked to find that prices were $3500 or more for what essentially was somebody else's stripped out parts car with a vin and a clear title. This thing was a gutted unibody with axles and a roof, and little else. A not quite complete basketcase. I hope it doesnt get that way with GMT400s that a numbers matching frame and stripped cab with clear title costing a couple grand. This may or may not happen when these things reach 50 years. It all depends on the attrition rate and what's left.
I am still amazed at the muscle cars people are still finding in garages under inches of dirt, or in barns, back yards etc. I know this isnt a clear cut answer except that as these get older and less clean examples are out there, it will start to drive up the values on the decent ones that are left, where that number goes is anybodies guess. These will probably be valued more in the rust belt states where clean rust free examples are all but non existant. These will become the garage/show queens that get put away 6 months out of the year because of the winter road salt and its effects.
When those clean rust free examples become harder to find, then the basket cases and picked over parts trucks will start to get hauled out of fields and backyards to be rebuilt. The aftermarket will gear up to make even more replacement pieces than is out there now because there is interest in these. I am now just waiting for exact duplicate 60/40 bench seat silverado light grey cloth repop covers to come out, since mine are starting to show some wear at 26 years. I want exact duplicate of OEM. Theres nothing yet.
Hope this helps
Matt
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Idk about comparing to other gmt400s on this sight lol. Some guys here have some clean looking mint condition rides, others have some awesome custom projects, somebody like me just loves to drive mine over and over to get as many miles as it can keep going. Yours being a caddy. Very nice indeed. Heres what I think helps your ride.. 1 first gen Escalade 2 miles 3 condition. But anybody who buys it is only willing to buy it for what they value for. I strongly believe in time they will go up in value. My reason is they are a special part in gm history. Modern twist with a comfortable ride. And just enough old school tech. Doesn't answer your question. But I'll put it this way. Right now if you wanna get rid of your ride maybe 8k. Say in time you wanna get ride of your ride I could easily see 10k or more. There's a nice gmt400 4wd suburban here in houston that was listed for 10k. I didnt think it was worth that but I may have to change my chain of thought because they are getting hard to find clean mint condition rides. But good luck hitting the teens. (13k or moore) like everybody said there no muscle car lol. Or a rare ride like a 442 w2 Hurst edition
Very common, alot of the cars are designed this way, remove the front cover to change a headlamp bulb.
I've replaced both bulbs on my 2009 from the rear.
same thing when i had my 67 (67-72), but lots fun looking thru the wreckers for parts. talk about easy to work on.
the other thing that killed them (67-87) was .... family's and seat belts.
The GMT400's filled that space, but FORD (sorry for the 4 letter word) made GM up their game with the supercab.
Lots of GMT400's still rocking in BC, the #1's bring good $$ the rest not so much.
DerekTheGreat
Forum Regular
You said it man. This has always been in the back of my mind and I've never heard it from anyone else or saw it posted anywhere else until here. Compared to what was available at the time, these GMT400's are indeed leaps and bounds better, the superior truck. The square body Chevy stuff still goes for better money around where I'm at but in my opinion, they're an inferior truck. Unmolested GMT400's ride so much nicer, are quieter and easy to work on when they do break. I like '87 to '96 Ford stuff and have had quite a few but damn do they ride like tractors by comparison. Every one of them I've ever seen get hit in the front, they always end up with alignment issues between the door and fender too. We're talking small hits too, less than 5mph.
Moparmat2000
I'm Awesome
The driving factor in value is also determined by supply and demand. In areas where these things met a fate with the rust monster, really nice low mileage examples are scarce, and will be valued higher than in areas of the country where rust is a non issue. Where I live, people junk them not because of rust, but rather because they are just completely worn out with 300K to 400K on the odometers but with rust free cabs, beds, doors, fenders, frames etc.
Eveready
I'm Awesome
The commercials back then said it all "Like a Rock" . It was an astoundingly good ad campaign backed by a truck that delivered exactly as promised. It didn't take long for that word to get around. Too bad GM didn't hang on to that lesson but that is another topic. I have had mine about 4 years and each year have put in the magic "two new truck payments a year" on fixing things and renewing others. This was the year of the Air Conditioner.
The second year I had it was the year of the transmission. The engine appears to be good and i think it was replaced before I got the truck but one never knows. It is after all 27 years old, but who's counting?. Next up, some new interior stuff and it will still be an old truck when that is done! It has its purpose, it is a truck.
I like to tell the guys with the 60,000 buck rolling brothel trucks. "Mine hauls just as much, is almost as fast, AC is (now) just as cold and I have no payments to remind me how overpriced it was.
The second year I had it was the year of the transmission. The engine appears to be good and i think it was replaced before I got the truck but one never knows. It is after all 27 years old, but who's counting?. Next up, some new interior stuff and it will still be an old truck when that is done! It has its purpose, it is a truck.
I like to tell the guys with the 60,000 buck rolling brothel trucks. "Mine hauls just as much, is almost as fast, AC is (now) just as cold and I have no payments to remind me how overpriced it was.
SteveOfromFL
Newbie
Hey guys I just bought a 1990 Chevy Cheyenne 2500 single cab with 4wd and single beam headlights one owner(old man)with 130,000 original miles on the 5.0L 305 from an old boss that needed money bad for $2000 flat. Its in absolutely excellent condition inside and out. Not a dent or crack ANYWHERE. Its my personal work truck. I want to see what you guys thought about how I did. I thought I did great and love her anyways! Lol
Eveready
I'm Awesome
That is a decent deal, particularly on a presumably low or no rust Southern truck. 4wD is really good and that 305 will likely run forever. In that shape I would consider restoring to as new rather than any custom stuff beyond a Blue Tooth Radio that will work with a phone. For a work truck that is a safety item.
