Starter Troubles

[TriGuy]

Truck is a 92 K1500 with a 96+ Vortec crate 5.7 adapted for TBI. Rock solid reliable truck, have pretty much daily driven it for nearly 8 years. A lot of this post will be background info. Main issue at the end.

A while back the truck started to have issues starting. Was one of those deals where smacking the starter with a hammer would get it going. This worked for a while until it simply wouldn't crank anymore.

I replaced the starter with a new starter I had on hand that had happened to be out in the weather for a while. Snowed on, rained on, etc. Had it on hand so figured why not. Truck continued to have issues starting though they were new issues. Struggled to cold start, wouldn't hot start at all. Figured it was an issue with my "new" neglected starter.

Today I replaced the starter with a brand new Remy vortec mini starter as I had wanted a mini starter anyways. I noticed it seemed to fit a little weird in the bell housing. Went to start the truck, truck was now getting zero power. Come to find out replacing the starter again had finally been enough for the apparently very corroded fusible link from positive battery post to junction block. It totally fell apart.

I began to think maybe that junky old wire explained some of my starting issue and perhaps some other issues my truck has had on occasion that I'd begun to plan on redoing all the grounds to correct. So I fixed the fusible link.

Looked forward to finally having my truck start again, went to start the truck but all I get is a click from the new starter. As I said, the mini starter seemed to fit a little weird but I couldn't figure out why.

As I post this I'm out of daylight and looking for ideas for when I come back to it tomorrow. Right now I'm planning on just starting with throwing the previous starter in. If it doesn't have something to do with the seemingly weird fit of the mini starter I'm at a loss because I have never been one for electrical diagnosis.

 

[Drunkcanuk]

Truck is a 92 K1500 with a 96+ Vortec crate 5.7 adapted for TBI. Rock solid reliable truck, have pretty much daily driven it for nearly 8 years. A lot of this post will be background info. Main issue at the end.

A while back the truck started to have issues starting. Was one of those deals where smacking the starter with a hammer would get it going. This worked for a while until it simply wouldn't crank anymore.

I replaced the starter with a new starter I had on hand that had happened to be out in the weather for a while. Snowed on, rained on, etc. Had it on hand so figured why not. Truck continued to have issues starting though they were new issues. Struggled to cold start, wouldn't hot start at all. Figured it was an issue with my "new" neglected starter.

Today I replaced the starter with a brand new Remy vortec mini starter as I had wanted a mini starter anyways. I noticed it seemed to fit a little weird in the bell housing. Went to start the truck, truck was now getting zero power. Come to find out replacing the starter again had finally been enough for the apparently very corroded fusible link from positive battery post to junction block. It totally fell apart.

I began to think maybe that junky old wire explained some of my starting issue and perhaps some other issues my truck has had on occasion that I'd begun to plan on redoing all the grounds to correct. So I fixed the fusible link.

Looked forward to finally having my truck start again, went to start the truck but all I get is a click from the new starter. As I said, the mini starter seemed to fit a little weird but I couldn't figure out why.

As I post this I'm out of daylight and looking for ideas for when I come back to it tomorrow. Right now I'm planning on just starting with throwing the previous starter in. If it doesn't have something to do with the seemingly weird fit of the mini starter I'm at a loss because I have never been one for electrical diagnosis.

Have you tried bench testing the new starter to make sure it even spins?

 

[Komet]

If you've got corrosion in one spot, you could also have it in others. I'm suspicious of the condition of your positive and negative battery cables, as well as all the chassis ground locations. That's where I'd start looking under the hood. The click makes me think the juice isn't flowing right.

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

Another thing that could be complicating things: do you have the correct bolts for the mini starter? They may not be the same as the ones that the original starter used. I've run into this on both my trucks, when changing starter designs.

 

[TriGuy]

Have you tried bench testing the new starter to make sure it even spins?

No, may be worth trying.

If you've got corrosion in one spot, you could also have it in others. I'm suspicious of the condition of your positive and negative battery cables, as well as all the chassis ground locations. That's where I'd start looking under the hood. The click makes me think the juice isn't flowing right.

You're right, and I know there's some corrosion in the battery end of my positive cable. I am planning to do the big 3 in the near future. I'd just be surprised if that's come to be the main culprit.

Another thing that could be complicating things: do you have the correct bolts for the mini starter? They may not be the same as the ones that the original starter used. I've run into this on both my trucks, when changing starter designs.

They're the correct GM OE bolts. When I say the fit is weird I mean there is a decent gap between the body of the starter and the bell housing. Doesn't sit flush like the previous starters. And I might be crazy but to my eye the starter almost looks like it sits slightly crooked. If something is off I'd be tempted to say the holes in the starter aren't drilled straight but that seems ridiculous.

 

[Schurkey]

They're the correct GM OE bolts.

Correct OE bolts for the original, bigass starter? Or correct OE bolts for the ministarter, which are NOT THE SAME as the bolts for the old-style inline, direct-drive starters?

If you re-used the original bolts, they will not fit the starter properly which might be the issue with your starter alignment.

ALSO: Did you buy the correct starter for the size flywheel you have? You could have a 153-tooth or a 168-tooth flywheel. Small flywheel starters generally have the bolts directly across from each other. Large flywheel starters generally have the bolts at a diagonal. There are exceptions especially with aftermarket starters.

 

[TriGuy]

Got the truck fired up this morning. Gave the battery a boost first thing, still nothing. Came back, made sure to give the keys a good jiggle in the ignition, fired right up no hesitation.

Thinking ignition starter switch but finding very little about how to replace it. May also be the ignition lock cylinder itself though I replaced it a few years ago. But in all fairness perhaps I shouldn't have so much faith that the chinesium wouldn't fail by now.

 

[TriGuy]

Thought my truck was good enough to count on till next week, drove it around a bit earlier, continued to start up with out issues. Sat for a few hours, came out, kept exhibiting the same symptoms plus some interesting erratic behavior from the gauges when the key was cycled. Wiggled the keys, fired up.

Then ended up stranded at grocery store. No amount of wiggling the keys or cycling through gears or trying to start in neutral helped it. Whacked the starter a bunch, tightened battery connections, nothing. Decided to replace the positive battery cable in the parking lot, still nothing. Wiggled keys, whacked starter. Then finally putting the truck in neutral got it started.

Gauges are definitely acting weird, oil pressure all over the place, battery reads low though I can't verify as I don't have a multimeter on hand at the moment. Dash lights and presumably tail lights and parking lights went out on the way home, wiggling headlight switch brought it back.

I'm starting to think a ground issue, maybe neutral safety switch? Thankfully my girlfriend is off the next few days as I work all week and not only is my truck down but I suddenly lost the brakes on my other car today, so I'll be borrowing her car.

 

[GoToGuy]

Have you bothered to do any actual diagnosis/ troubleshooting ? " Whacking on new starter ?"
Is the bendix hanging up, that's why whacked on it, or just guessing cause you heard that works?
If you see a known problem. Fix it first. Known crap grounds, crap electric cable connections , positive and negative can create a situation resulting in endless circle of false answers. To the point of changing good parts.
The key tumbler has no electric control over starting. Wiggling the key , nope, ignition switch ( lower column ) having poor contact or bad connection yes.