Starter troubles and replacement

[WILWAXU]

I bought this AC Delco for my truck: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007QBT0WA Since it replaced an old school starter twice it size.. the new one was a night and day difference. It's marked made in Korea.

 

[Schurkey]

The truck won't start periodically... starter won't turn.

1. What is the voltage at the "S" terminal of the solenoid when the key is turned to "Start"?

2. What is the voltage at the STARTER SOLENOID END of the main positive battery cable, when the key is turned to "Start"?

3. What is the voltage at the battery when the key is turned to "Start"?

4. Torquing the two vertical starter bolts is fine. Do you have the CORRECT bolts? The GM Mini-starters take different bolts than the previous "full-size" starters.

5. Do you have the starter-to-engine block brace at the front of the starter?

6. Do you have a heat-shield over the starter solenoid?

7. WHAT YEAR VEHICLE IS THIS?????

 

[454cid]

I bought this AC Delco for my truck: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007QBT0WA Since it replaced an old school starter twice it size.. the new one was a night and day difference. It's marked made in Korea.

That's the one I'm planning on ordering. If you posted about it before, it was probably your post I was thinking of... although, I was thinking it was made in Brazil, I knew it wasn't Mexico or China. Korea could be fine.

 

[454cid]

1. What is the voltage at the "S" terminal of the solenoid when the key is turned to "Start"?

2. What is the voltage at the STARTER SOLENOID END of the main positive battery cable, when the key is turned to "Start"?

3. What is the voltage at the battery when the key is turned to "Start"?

No idea on all of the above. There's nothing to indicate it's a low voltage situation. It never "tries" to start, it's all or nothing.

4. Torquing the two vertical starter bolts is fine. Do you have the CORRECT bolts? The GM Mini-starters take different bolts than the previous "full-size" starters.

The bolts and the starter are original.

5. Do you have the starter-to-engine block brace at the front of the starter?

There is no brace, and no place for one, that I can see. The starter is tiny and I wouldn't think it would need a brace.

6. Do you have a heat-shield over the starter solenoid?

Yes

7. WHAT YEAR VEHICLE IS THIS?????

It's my 99 K3500 with the 454.

 

[Schurkey]

Low voltage at the "S" terminal will cause a no-crank situation. This is especially common when the starter/solenoid is hot. Less of a problem when the starter/solenoid is cold.

Unless the battery voltage is dropping when the key is turned, the starter solenoid is failing to engage.

If the voltage drops too much, you'd get slow cranking, which I understand is not the problem you're facing.

 

[454cid]

Low voltage at the "S" terminal will cause a no-crank situation. This is especially common when the starter/solenoid is hot. Less of a problem when the starter/solenoid is cold.

It's always when it's run, but then has sat for a bit... I drive someplace, and then shut the truck off, and it won't start when it's time to leave. So heat does seem to play some role. What would you consider low voltage at the S terminal? I can check it tomorrow with my uncle's help and before I order a new starter.

Unless the battery voltage is dropping when the key is turned, the starter solenoid is failing to engage.

I don't think it's engaging, assuming it would make some sound.

If the voltage drops too much, you'd get slow cranking, which I understand is not the problem you're facing.

Right, it behaves like the starter is completely disconnected, as for as I can tell.

 

[Schurkey]

It's always when it's run, but then has sat for a bit... I drive someplace, and then shut the truck off, and it won't start when it's time to leave. So heat does seem to play some role. What would you consider low voltage at the S terminal? I can check it tomorrow with my uncle's help and before I order a new starter.

I don't think it's engaging, assuming it would make some sound.

Runs, warms up, shut off, wait ten minutes...no crank = classic "heat soak" starting failure.

Ideally, you'd see very close to battery voltage at the "S" terminal with the key turned to "Start". Of course, as soon as the starter cranks, battery voltage is going to drop due to the amperage demand. Fairly common to be a volt or two down from battery voltage. I'm not saying that's good, just that it's common.

Every length of wire, and every connection point from battery to passenger compartment to ignition switch, to neutral safety or clutch switch, to the firewall connector, to the "S" terminal of the starter solenoid adds it's little bit of resistance. When there's excess resistance anywhere in that circuit, all you can do is re-test for voltage farther from the starter, and work your way backwards through all the connections and switches.

If you're lucky, you find a switch with burned/eroded contacts. You replace one part and everything is back to functioning again.

If you're not lucky, you find and correct corrosion at every point you test--you may clean a half-dozen connections before the system works right again.

But all this begins with testing the voltage at the "S" terminal with the key turned to "Start". The fastest, easiest way to do this is to put the + lead of the voltmeter on the + battery terminal. Put the - lead of the voltmeter on the "S" terminal, and turn the key to "start". The voltmeter will read the DIFFERENCE between battery voltage and "S" terminal voltage. A meter reading of two volts would be about the maximum I'd be willing to put up with. More than that and you're asking for cranking problems. Less than two volts is better, and in a perfect world you'd see almost no voltage on the meter (0.1 or so.)

 

[454cid]

Runs, warms up, shut off, wait ten minutes...no crank = classic "heat soak" starting failure.

Saturday was probably 20 or 25 minutes. Sunday was probably closer to an hour. I'm in Michigan so it's cold outside now too.

Ideally, you'd see very close to battery voltage at the "S" terminal with the key turned to "Start". Of course, as soon as the starter cranks, battery voltage is going to drop due to the amperage demand. Fairly common to be a volt or two down from battery voltage. I'm not saying that's good, just that it's common.

Every length of wire, and every connection point from battery to passenger compartment to ignition switch, to neutral safety or clutch switch, to the firewall connector, to the "S" terminal of the starter solenoid adds it's little bit of resistance. When there's excess resistance anywhere in that circuit, all you can do is re-test for voltage farther from the starter, and work your way backwards through all the connections and switches.

If you're lucky, you find a switch with burned/eroded contacts. You replace one part and everything is back to functioning again.

If you're not lucky, you find and correct corrosion at every point you test--you may clean a half-dozen connections before the system works right again.

How fun :-/

The neutral safety switch is something I don't think I've ever had eyes on.

But all this begins with testing the voltage at the "S" terminal with the key turned to "Start". The fastest, easiest way to do this is to put the + lead of the voltmeter on the + battery terminal. Put the - lead of the voltmeter on the "S" terminal, and turn the key to "start". The voltmeter will read the DIFFERENCE between battery voltage and "S" terminal voltage. A meter reading of two volts would be about the maximum I'd be willing to put up with. More than that and you're asking for cranking problems. Less than two volts is better, and in a perfect world you'd see almost no voltage on the meter (0.1 or so.)

Ok, thanks.

 

[WILWAXU]

That's the one I'm planning on ordering. If you posted about it before, it was probably your post I was thinking of... although, I was thinking it was made in Brazil, I knew it wasn't Mexico or China. Korea could be fine.

Good so far Do the big blocks use the same starter as the 350?

 

[454cid]

Good so far Do the big blocks use the same starter as the 350?

I think there are some peculiarities with different years, but in general I think so. Some of the 350s used the big starter, but i think once GM started using the mini-starters all the big blocks got them.

Sometimes the flywheel/flexplate matters, according to some things I read.