How would you make a TBI 454 as analog as possible?

Erik the Awful

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Misconception 1: EMP Will Cause Every Exposed Electronic System to Cease Functioning.

Based on the U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) and Congressional EMP Commission’s EMP test databases, small, self-contained systems, such as motor vehicles, hand-held radios, and unconnected portable generators, tend not to be affected by EMPs. If there is an effect on these systems, it is often temporary upset rather than component burnout.

Basically, things that are connected to power lines are more likely to get a spike.
 

Sentinelist

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Summit is where I get all of this kind of stuff from.

From your screen shot - You will also need an electric choke kit for that edelbrock 1405, unless you want to hook up a manual choke and pull/push it each time you start cold. Also with that carb - it is going to be a low to mid range carb. It is a bit small for a big block. If I did a 454 with a carb, that is what I'd buy for my needs, but if you are after big power on top, you probably want a 750cfm+ carb.

You might also need an intake manifold? I don't know what the 454 tbi intake manifold is like. Does it have room for a 4 barrel? If you did this to a newer (vortec) 454, you for sure would need an intake manifold.

You will need a fuel pressure regulator that adjusts down to 5.5 psi, best if it also has a return line to keep the fuel cool. Might want to get a heat insulator to go under the carb, as some have issues with the edelbrock vapor locking without the plate and fuel return style fpr.

I don't know enough about the distributor (is that HEI?), or the manual valve body to comment on that. I was going to buy the summit brand HEI if I did it. I also don't know enough about wide band O2 sensors - but the one that you picked seems expensive.

If you do this, you will have to manually move the shifter for each gear change. You would also need to put a toggle switch (or something) to engage/disengage the TCC every time. Just be sure that you want it bad enough to do it.

Next concern would be gauges and cruise control - you might be able to make them work, but I don't know how. If I do this, I will spend the $$$ on an aftermarket cruise control and gauges.

My total cost to build one as I wanted was around $12-15,000. That was with a reman 454 vortec long block and trans shop rebuilding my 4l80e with/for the manual valve body. To me that is too much money to basically stay the same or go backwards in driveability. I'm sure that it can be done cheaper, but it might take a bunch of messing around/time to make it work.

I appreciate the reply. Manual choke actually sounds cool, antiquated as it is. Added what appears may work with a choke kit for a pull lever mounted on the dash. Not too dissimilar from the intrigue and preference for manual transmissions which I have, and wish these two Burbs had. I think that was only a base trim option and not on the Silverados, etc. I swapped out the previous carb with a 750cfm unit in the cart attached here (powdercoated for good measure)- nice catch. Not sure if a 4-barrel will fit or if will need a new intake manifold. Guess there's only one way to find out, and if an aftermarket hood is 'necessary' so be it. Are all rectangle ports the same where an Edelbrock carb and heat insulator can mount to a Holley manifold?

Added what I hope are compatible heat insulator, FPR w/ return, and a Summit brand distributor- this one doesn't say HEI. Is that ideal for what I'm going after? And is that different than a cap and rotor unit? No idea on the manual valve body either- is this what's needed to move the shifter manually (more on that below- would like to bypass the column for sure in this case)? Am sure I can address the trans stuff after the motor stuff is done and find the right kit needed for the stock auto trans. Also no idea on the wideband O2 sensor if anyone might be able to point in the right direction.

For gauges, I'm wondering if all/most of the stock ones in the cluster could somehow be coupled/replicated with analog units mounted along the A-pillar so that both work. Or if not easily, then just the manual gauges along the A-piller then. Those and housing TBD. Not worried much about cruise or the radio. Or HVAC, though my family would say otherwise- that solution is also still TBD.

With an aging stock TBI setup on any stock truck I'm looking at, done with quality parts and know-how (not necessarily mine, but here and my indy mechanic), these changes shouldn't be any worse a driveability experience than what it has now I wouldn't think. Might even sound better, dunno. Status quo works for me in the end. Not really after massive HP gains but dependability and old school simplicity. Assuming I don't have to do a reman of the engine or trans (at least in this same phase of work), the costs seem doable. Several grand for the truck. A few grand in crazytown analog conversion components. Some sweat equity and maybe another grand or two in shop labor if needed to fit it all. It's something I can hopefully stretch out over time as well. And could also swap over to another Gen V 454 TBI if I had to do an OE repower later.

Specific links for the exact parts needed would be welcomed. If anything, to document here for future reference if any other nutcases like me come along so we don't have to do this again. :)

Man, I can go down a rabbit-hole of stuff stuck in the back corners of my head on this one.

EMP is waaay overrated because of movies. It's a massive magnetic pulse, and that's it. The pulse's strength diminishes quickly with distance. An electric circuit doesn't magically quit because of an EMP, the magnetic pulse moves through the circuit, inducing a voltage. If the resulting current is higher than the circuit can handle, you get the same failure you'd get from drawing too much current. Depending on the proximity to the pulse, some electronics will survive, and some won't.

A good analogy is the old Intel Celeron 300 processors. I had a friend who bought a Celeron 300 for his computer build, and I bought a Celeron 333. A few months later overclocking became a hot thing. The 300s could be successfully overclocked to 450mhz, but if you overclocked a 333, there was a 90% chance it would brick. The 300's circuits were a bit overbuilt, and the 333s weren't. With an EMP, I'd guess a Celeron 300 would have a better chance of surviving than a Celeron 333. Even then, there are quality differences in the same type of component. My next computer build was an Athlon, and when the Athlons came out, I read an article on how they were grading the Athlon 1.2ghz, 1.1ghz, and 1.0ghz chips. They all came off the same production line, with the same design. They all got tested and sorted by capability. There were over a million transistors in an Athlon, and the best chips had over 95% of the transistors working when they were tested. These got sold as 1.2ghz chips, while the ones that had 93% of the chips working got sold as 1.1ghz, and the ones that had 90% working were sold as 1.0ghz. Same chip, it was just a question of how well the manufacturing process worked that determined how well the chip performed.

That brings up the robustness of the electronics. Auto electronics are typically designed with a bit more robustness than a TV that hangs on a wall and never moves. When the current chip shortage started, I heard a bit about how the chip manufacturers were all really happy to sideline automotive chips because the technology to produce them is about twenty years old and making them requires working with old equipment. They aren't bleeding-edge chips with a delicate production process. The techniques have been optimized and the yields are optimized to reduce bad chips. These are going to be less susceptible to EMP.

Anybody remember that space launch that happened a few years ago, and the satellite failed almost immediately because they'd used off-the-shelf chips instead of older, ruggedized chips that could handle solar radiation? The ruggedized chips would be more likely to survive.

EMP is not a magic "kill everything electronic" bomb. You're dealing in chances.

Well same here if you're going to bring up Athlons! I'm an IT manager by day and am sitting here looking at an original Athlon sticker I found in a desk drawer last month and put over the i9 sticker in jest on my new Thinkpad for work. I built a few dozen PCs when I was younger, the first ones with Athons in that 1-1.2GHz range and remember handling them well, and the stories of Celeron overclocking back then. Fun times, made good money doing it on the side in college, and probably kept me from hot rodding and crashing vehicles more than I did already. One or the other, guess it still is today.

At any rate, you're correct on chances with the objective here. It's a silly amount of variables and low odds at the end of the day. But it's enough so that I've been after shoring up this kind of stuff 'just in case'. And that said, having already addressed far more obviously more important preps already over the past 10 yrs. including moving out of the city onto a rural property with one foot on the grid and one foot off. Is EFI what I'm going to be worried about in such an event? Actually maybe yes if everything else I have put in place holds. :)

Or, simply install a Faraday cage around your electronics :waytogo:


Yep, that's where the spare alternator and anything else I can't resolve would go. Today, it's a metal trashcan and lid full of compromise-able backup electronic gear stored in anti-static bags for good measure, which may not be effective. I'm looking at something better than that as well. I understand if there is metal mesh weatherstripping of sorts for the door to better seal/conduct the gap, my big steel gun safe may do the job better. (And yes of course it has a combination lock vs. electronic keypad- that would just be silly.)

Almost like the metal skin surrounding a suburban, lol.

If your truck was ground zero for an EMP pulse, I wonder if any modern distributor components would survive or even the low voltage side of a ignition coil. Might have to go back to a magneto

Yeah, that goes back to the gap I mentioned above. Seems like the steel body would be perfectly adequate, y'know, sitting on 4 rubber tires. Most things I read say it may be. But the gaps in the doors (not to mention the windows) wouldn't cut it to fully shield from an electrical and magnetic surge.

The ignition coil is still a concern and a spare of which is planned. Haven't looked into that part yet. I'm prepared to bypass part of the ignition with a mechanical switch under the dash if it simplifies that system, as theft isn't a concern where I live and park it. Just manually locking the doors would be more than sufficient for any concern.
 

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Sentinelist

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Full manual valve body for your trans probably isnt the best idea unless you add a ratchet shifter in comfortable reach. Rowing the column shifter up and down would get real old real fast.
Excellent point and agreed. I think I found a compatible ratchet shifter in the attachments above but please advise otherwise.



Basically, things that are connected to power lines are more likely to get a spike.

Good educated link- thanks very much. Hopefully, probably, I'm overthinking and realistically worrying too much. But for a few extra grand, it's worth it for me to have this concern a bit more alleviated. I spent an hour just researching lightning arresters and probably need to mount one directly to my home generator... both breaker panels have whole home surge protection installed on each. For whatever that may be worth.
 

0xDEADBEEF

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EMP will demagnetize things, I think. I think the only thing EMP proof is a diesel with a mechanical fuel pump, but you won't be able to charge your battery so get a manual trans and park on a long hill.
 

Sentinelist

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EMP will demagnetize things, I think. I think the only thing EMP proof is a diesel with a mechanical fuel pump, but you won't be able to charge your battery so get a manual trans and park on a long hill.

The 6.5TD with the mechanical fuel pump (P400 as well) is exactly what I had before, though stock auto trans, and part of me wishes I hadn't bartered it away. But perimeter fences need mending. That guy got a cool old truck with a lot of sweat equity into it and I got some additional security and the ability to not worry about having to chase and wrangle livestock down the road. I've got a few various wattage solar panels up to 100W, maybe more soon for a separate project, and spare charge controllers to keep any batteries that still function topped up. And if not on one cloudy day, another sunny one. Inverters and chargers as well to do 6Amp+ charges for batteries that are drained more. Sadly no hills long or short on my property. I guess if I pushed it about 1000' the road drops pretty sharp to a bridge over a creek... but these aren't fun to push flat even with a couple guys.
 

0xDEADBEEF

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Now that I think about it, all the metal surrounding the engine bay should act like a Faraday cage. Where are the Mythbusters when you need them?
 

letitsnow

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https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-850001-1 - This is the hei that I was going to order. Not sure if the one that you had picked would work/or is better or worse if so.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wpp-187-1 - This is the shifter that I was going to use. It says it is for the 4l80e, but they also make them for the 4l60e if you get a 1/2 ton.

https://shop.jakesperformance.com/shop/ols/products/4l80e-manual-control-box - This is what you can install to make your 4l80e manual shift without adding the manual valve body, if you'd like.

Please keep us posted. I think that what you are doing is awesome, and would love to follow along.
 

letitsnow

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As far as the carb fitting on a holley manifold - you have square and spread bore carb and intakes. If they don't match, maybe you can get an adapter? I really don't know on that one.
 

1998_K1500_Sub

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In addition to the old-school truck, make this your home for the low, low price of $380,000.


Check out all the pictures on the MLS listing.


"Built on 11 acres of land, this property is home to a decommissioned Atlas F missile silo complex. The underground complex was designed to withstand a nuclear strike and has water, electricity and a forced sewage system to the ground surface"
 

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df2x4

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In addition to the old-school truck, make this your home for the low, low price of $380,000.


Check out all the pictures on the MLS listing.


Is it weird that I kind of want this? :lol:

Pretty sure there's an abandoned silo not far from my dad's place. I've been curious if it will ever come up for sale.
 
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