94 octane vs 87 octane?!?

[MOBS]

I say we process death row inmates into fuel........there's a never-ending source of fuel

 

[Tempted]

Ever seen that self powered generator?

 

[cdubb]

LOLOLOLOL that's not how it works. Individual stations don't have a say in what fuel they buy, only wholesalers. Ethanol is mandated to be blended in on-road fuel at a federal level, but sometimes it will be skipped when blending fuel for marine use, etc. Personally, I wouldn't run it because it's lower quality than what you'll get with the ethanol blends.

Partly correct : 10% blend ( They are trying to make it 15% ) is mandated by the Government depending on population and season Phoenix Az. is the only place I know of where they change fron E-10 in winter to conventional in summer . Yes they did give us a tax break until this year Now the tax break is gone! Second : You can buy conventional ( no ethanol gas ) at very few stations HOWEVER it is for recreational off road use Only! and much more expensive. Our stations and any Dealer stations we supply do not have a choice in what they get ( if we were to get caught with conventional gas in our tanks we would pay DEARLY...). The grade of gas does not change wether or not you bled in ethanol its all the same. If I blend 1000 gallons E-10 I use 900 gallons 84 octane and 100 gallons ethanol that equates to 87 octane. conventional gas is Only available in 93 octane (at least from my many suppliers).. Mid grade is a blend usually 87 and 93 octane blended by the pump when you pump it at the stations. Gas is ony produced for sale in my area in 84 and 93 octane We blend the rest as we load it using different ratios of the two... and ethanol!

I happen to agree with the majority of you and dont like the crap, but what uncle sam wants he gets.

Just an FYI refering to brands ( Shell, Exxon, Sunoco, Chevron etc. ) it all comes out of the same tank at the pipeline terminals THE difference is additive and detergents injected when it is loaded in the truck for final delivery.

* Yes this is a very educated statment *

 

[cdubb]

I have used "farm diesel" in the past. Just don't get caught with it. It's pink/red in color and illegal to use on public roads. No detergents, high sulfur.

High sulfur diesel has not been made for a few years now... All Diesel is 15 ppm sulfur Off road "farm" diesel is On road diesel with red die injected at the loadind rack as it loaded in the delivery truck to the final destination.

 

[Tempted]

Been about 5 years since I've bought it, used it in an old Kubota on my Grandpas farm. No idea what changes they have made or had made then. I know you can still buy it around here. As far as non-ethanol gasoline, it is 100% legal to use on any public roads in GA, TN and AL. Not sure on other states. If I recall correctly E10 was initially blended for winter mix. I remember hating winter because of it, the stuff is crap compared to standard gasoline. There is a place in Cartersville, GA who sells 91 conventional. There are dozens of places around Chattanooga that sell all grades of 100%. It is easy to find when there are large bodies of water around, people don't want ethanol in their boats. It has wreaked havoc on my 2 stroke motors. Top end on my enduro went from lasting around 500 hours to 300 when I was using E10. My boat dropped about 300rpm at WOT and 0 trim with E10 and the carbs needed a rebuild after half of a season.

100% gasoline averages about 10c a gallon more here, not enough to make me stop using it.

On late model engines you won't tell much of a difference between 100% and E10. They are built to compensate for it. Old motors aren't, however, and OBD1 vehicles are not happy on it. Most drivers won't notice it, most enthusiasts will. My 66 Chevy, with its original 261, really hates E10. In fact it doesn't even like regular unleaded.

Uncle Sam is killing off the hot rod and performance markets. The MPG wars and now the new EPA regs make it near impossible to build a cheap sports car.

 

[MOBS]

Hey cdubb, the octance mixes is where i've heard different. To make e10 you mentioned 90% 84 mixed with 10% ethanol to increase octane to 87?! As far as I've always figured, alchy lowers your octane rating due to the higher explosive/less stable properties of it. Also, the high sulfur versus low sulfur fuel.....here in MS, there are places where you can get the older fuels still, and they're relatively cheap. High Sulfer diesel(labeled as non-DOT compliant) is on average about $.70 cheaper than standard road diesel, and about $.06 cheaper than standard "red fuel" offroad diesel. There's very few places you can get it, around here, the only place you can get it from is the airport. Speaking of which, they also have a pump there labeled (non-DOT compliant) Leaded Gasoline. I might start grabbing some of that for my pre-emissions vehicles.....actually I've only got 2 cars that haven't had stainless valves/seats installed yet. That leaded fuel is HIGH, about $1 more than premium.

 

[454SSguy]

That's actually right on the money about adding in ethanol to up the octane rating. E85 is right around 107 or so, way more stable, that's why guys run it in boosted apps. It makes less power too (more stable) and it takes about 110% E85 t omake the same power as 100% of your normal fuel. Even though it takes more, you can run more timing, or more boost to make up for the loss. It is less efficent (MPG wise) b/c of the extra fuel required.

As a rule, the more stable a fuel is the less power it makes therefore the worse the MPG's. So 87 actually gets better gas mileage, no matter what you heard or your butt dyno told you. If you tune your vehicle to run 93 (adding more timing) then yes that would help make more power and more mileage but just adding in higher octane fuel, you'll actually lose power.

MOBS - That "High Sulfur" diesel that you can buy at the airport is probably JP-8. Literally Jet Fuel, I know a few guys who run it in there turbo diesel's. It burns dirty but they get it for free.

 

[slowburb]

Red off road diesel is not taxed. You can buy it anywhere. I buy thousands of gallons of it weekly, all over the USA. E10 is trash. Complete trash. I despise newer vehicles and the retarded ways the oilmongers and ethanolmongers have suckered auto mfr's into designing around their influence on the epa.

E10 burns "cooler". This is why boosted engines like it.

Real gasoline (multiple grades) is available here in Louisiana for about $0.20/gal more than that e10 puke. I run it in my small engines and in my chevelle.

There is nothing efficient about e10. Costs more to make, and the actual production has a bigger "carbon footprint" than gasoline.

 

[Tempted]

Higher octane absolutely does not mean more power. It means higher resistance to detonation. Propane has an octane rating of something like 110 but the energy per part is lower than standard gasoline.

 

[cdubb]

In Michigan conventional gas is ONLY legal in off road applications . I have a good friend with a twin turbo chevelle ( Jonathon Ballew on you tube ) that made 800 and some change on pump gas 93 octane. I cant remember the 110 octane hp number but his E-85 numbers were 1042 hp. HOWEVER he burns alot of it.
Now about the High Sulfur diesel I was to under stand that it has been about 5 yrs since they made it, But if you can get it I stand corrected . I work for a very large gas on oil retailer / Wholesaler and I cant get it from anybody.
Red diesel should be atleast 40 to 60 cents cheaper depending on your states fuel tax. But all the red I sell is 15ppm sulfur.

AND YES E-10 IN A PAIN IN THE @#$ even for us in our storage tanks. condensation causes Phase seperation ( gas and ethanol seperate in the tank ) and it becomes useless. 15 to 25,000 gallon storage tanks 36 stations and 4 truck stops. you do the math YEAH we hate it too

I tried to comment or answer all questions or affirm what some of you said If i missed something or you have any questions just ask or pm me and ill answer if I know the answer if I dont I'll find out .