94 octane vs 87 octane?!?

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Tempted

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Not really. Those of us who own and operate high power two stroke engines know very well what E10 does to us. And it isn't an opinion that E10 lowers MPGs and power, it is a complete fact. It won't hurt a modern engine but it does steal some power. Not to mention it is just plain stupid. It raises the price of our food and lowers the output of our car, so what the hell is it doing in our fuel pumps?
 

MOBS

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Not really. Those of us who own and operate high power two stroke engines know very well what E10 does to us. And it isn't an opinion that E10 lowers MPGs and power, it is a complete fact. It won't hurt a modern engine but it does steal some power. Not to mention it is just plain stupid. It raises the price of our food and lowers the output of our car, so what the hell is it doing in our fuel pumps?

Here's an opinion on why: By adding alchy to pumps they can claim they're contributing to the environment by selling "green" fuel and get a tax deduction....so they in turn make more money.....well, technically they don't MAKE any more money, they just retain more from paying less taxes.

^That's just a possibility....I dont actually know how it works, but that does make good sense.
 

Tempted

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^^^ Exactly right. Fuel stations CAN buy non-ethanol fuel but choose to purchase E10 due to the greatly reduced taxes they have to pay on it. Most fuel stations that still sell 100% gasoline are, not surprisingly, American owned and operated. The foreign owned stations are almost always E10, they don't care about the consumer only their bottom line.

Edit- And the most "green" fuel is propane. It has a lower power output than gasoline but its resistance to detonation means you can adjust the timing and make nearly identical total output. It is also cheaper to buy. MPGs will drop a little, but it is a viable alternative for those seeking "greener" fuel. It also eliminates the need of a fuel pump, carburetor and EGR system.
 

Chris

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Not really. Those of us who own and operate high power two stroke engines know very well what E10 does to us. And it isn't an opinion that E10 lowers MPGs and power, it is a complete fact. It won't hurt a modern engine but it does steal some power. Not to mention it is just plain stupid. It raises the price of our food and lowers the output of our car, so what the hell is it doing in our fuel pumps?

Maybe you could enlighten me, because I've seen no ill effects in any of my two strokes or marine engines. :read: 99% of the occasions I hear that it's due to owner neglect and poor maintenance.

As far as what it does to automobile engines, you're right and you're wrong. You have to factor in cost per mile of operation. 1mpg loss with cheaper fuel (yes ethanol is subsidized) is better than more expensive, lower quality gasoline with God knows what additives. Ethanol will be with us forever since it's impossible to meet federal motor fuel regulations with any other oxygenating additive readily available. MTBE and the like are not used anymore. As far as losing power, I'm not sure where you get your facts but ALL GM vehicles are rated for higher hp/tq on ethanol-blended fuels up to E85 than they are on "regular" gasoline. We're seeing more engines designed with higher compression to take advantage of ethanol in fuel to regain lost efficiency and improve power.

Fuel-grade ethanol in no way increases the price of food, that's a right-wing talk show talking point that's been proven wrong on numerous occasions. (not starting a political discussion, just stating a fact) The feed corn that's grown isn't fit for human consumption and there have been studies on top of studies showing impermissible difference in arable land being used for growing fuel-grade crops. I think we can all agree the industry shouldn't be subsidized, but that's another matter. The fact is we can either pay our people to grow and manufacture it, or import it from Latin America. Not a tough choice if you ask me. If you want "straight" gasoline with no additives to improve the air we breathe and clean your engine, then go to Mexico, fill up with a tank of Pemex and see how far you make it back before you want to siphon it out. There isn't any walking both sides of the street. We had to phase out tetraethyl because it was poisoning the air and water, and we've had to phase out MTBE and other once plentiful additives because they were poisoning our air and water. Gasoline sold today is light years better than what was available 30 years ago from a performance and environmental viewpoint(once it leaves the tailpipe). Ethanol in gasoline dramatically improves exhaust emissions and is multitudes less toxic for the environment. We can talk all day about better ways of procuring it, but the fact remains it's here to stay.
 

Chris

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Here's an opinion on why: By adding alchy to pumps they can claim they're contributing to the environment by selling "green" fuel and get a tax deduction....so they in turn make more money.....well, technically they don't MAKE any more money, they just retain more from paying less taxes.

^That's just a possibility....I dont actually know how it works, but that does make good sense.

LOLOLOLOL that's not how it works. Individual stations don't have a say in what fuel they buy, only wholesalers. Ethanol is mandated to be blended in on-road fuel at a federal level, but sometimes it will be skipped when blending fuel for marine use, etc. Personally, I wouldn't run it because it's lower quality than what you'll get with the ethanol blends.
 

Tempted

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LOLOLOLOL that's not how it works. Individual stations don't have a say in what fuel they buy, only wholesalers. Ethanol is mandated to be blended in on-road fuel at a federal level, but sometimes it will be skipped when blending fuel for marine use, etc. Personally, I wouldn't run it because it's lower quality than what you'll get with the ethanol blends.

Actually you are wrong. It is not mandated, it is encouraged and given tax breaks. Individual stations ABSOLUTELY have the option of using 100% gasoline instead of watered down fuel. I've noticed far more frequent carburetor rebuilds on both of my boat motors as well as reduced longevity from the top ends of my 2 stroke enduro bike. Calling pure gasoline lower quality than E10 is ridiculous. It is also very uneducated. Marinas do not use the fuel because of the known problems that come with it. They only use high quality, higher energy output gasoline. E10 was designed as a winter mix fuel to reduce the chance of freezing when small amounts of water build up in gasoline. It has been known for many years that winter mix is an inferior fuel, with its only benefit being a lower chance of freezing in cold weather. The troll face you have in your profile signature is explaining to me the reason you choose to argue.
 

JonZ71

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Well mine likes to pull better and actually gets better mpg's maybe 2 and for the price of 10 dollars difference on fill up, ill run the high **** whenever. If im pulling something nothing but 93 will go in it, now if it's my horses ill let whatever is in the tank. But i always run a good full tank of 93 with fuel injector cleaner once a month. IDC what yall think, but i have had no issues with it, and if yall don't like how i spend my money then feel free to ignore me. Not being a dick buy simply stating my opinion.
 

JonZ71

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Oh and for the ethanol debate, we have quite a few within 50 miles or so that do not sell ethanol, but they do charge you a bit more then ethanol.
 

Tempted

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Yeah they do all charge more, its because of the tax break given to the stations who choose ethanol. I'll pay more and have a better running truck. Ends up about the same if you take into consideration the increased power and fuel mileage.
 
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