1993 Yukon crate motor hydraulic roller lifter cleaning and adjustment journey - (Solved)

[Schurkey]

Lotsa counterfeit parts on Amazon 'n' eBay.

Send the photos to Wix/Mann + Hummel. See what they say.

I got "Iridium" spark plugs for my Trailblazer from a dirtbag in Forney, Tx. He was an "Amazon associate" seller. Plugs were "not authentic" according to GM. I sent them this photo and several others, they responded after a couple of weeks. Amazon refunded my money, the dirtbag very much wanted to "handle" this on the telephone--not in writing via e-mail.

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[someotherguy]

Lotsa counterfeit parts on Amazon 'n' eBay.

Send the photos to Wix/Mann + Hummel. See what they say.

I got "Iridium" spark plugs for my Trailblazer from a dirtbag in Forney, Tx. He was an "Amazon associate" seller. Plugs were "not authentic" according to GM. I sent them this photo and several others, they responded after a couple of weeks. Amazon refunded my money, the dirtbag very much wanted to "handle" this on the telephone--not in writing via e-mail.

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That's good stuff.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if his filter is legit, after recent news we've heard about Wix. I've seen that same change in other filter brands - ACDelco is a good example.

Filters always seem to be changing and it's a frustrating thing when something we've grown to trust changes. The thing is, it's mostly psychological. We trusted the filter based on a brand name reputation and not much more. It changes in a way noticeable to the eye and all of a sudden it's suspect?

Here's an interesting one: the filter got "bigger" - you can see several design differences externally without the need to chop it open. It's not the same filter anymore. But the "new" filter is taller... M1-206A (my alternate fit filter for the LQ9 6.0)

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Richard

 

[scott2093]

So the oil filter adapter cleaning went well. No leaks. Still a random couple second tap at startup. No rhyme or reason. Quiet after sitting overnight, couple taps after driving 10 minutes. None for rest of day. Couple taps next morning...kind of stuff.

I was thinking about when I was cleaning the adapter and the bypass valve in particular. I mean it moved fine... Seemed clean ...but I couldn't tell you if it seals right? I think it is. If it wasn't , wouldn't I get a guaranteed tap after sitting overnight? Or am I not thinking correctly about how it works?
When I had lacquer thinner, I would fill up the area of the valve so it was submerged and I'm pretty sure the thinner would leak past in pretty short order. I remember thinking it must be evaporation but I'm not so sure. At any rate, again, would that not give me a guaranteed tapping at startup after sitting for a period?

Sounds like its always passenger bank..But it has been so minor, usually just a tap or 2 or three , and not bothering me that I decided to do an adjustment on the valves last night.
I have been driving at 3/4 turn plus 3/16ish past zero lash. And I don't like it.
Missy Elliot keeps popping in my head... Slight missy feeling idle and feels constrained when driving if that makes sense. Still smooth and quiet and will go but, I know what less preload feels like and I want to be closer to there..

So I backed everything off 1/8 turn last night...Not sure if I'm supposed to go through the whole song and dance every time I adjust the valves? Just backed everything off...
Good 45 second tap this morning... Another couple 30 second taps at startup throughout the day after truck sitting for a few hours I'd say...

1/8 turn will do that? I swear I definitely like the idle better and it seems smooth... I'm really wanting to be at 1/2 turn or a hair over but, if tapville is the destination I'm not so sure....

Regardless, the truck runs quiet and strong.I've been at 1/2 turn to just over 1 turn....

.. Just the more preload I go, idle gets bumpy, response seems like it has push back..

..the less preload, idle smooths out, truck is more responsive but, I'm getting to the point where I'm looking to see if anyone's around before I start her..lol


My lifters had to be around a turn and a half before I started all of this. I keep reading some lifters just want to be loaded up...or they'll let you hear about it...but I think that's just meaning they are noisy. Mine aren't...just the startup tapping gets progressively worse with less preload...and I know more preload helps, but the truck feels worse when it has more....

Maybe I have other issues revealed at more preload that give that bumpy idle and different response???

Still haven't reached out to Wix/M&H about the different looking Amazon filter.......

 

[Road Trip]

However, I wouldn't be surprised if his filter is legit, after recent news we've heard about Wix. I've seen that same change in other filter brands - ACDelco is a good example.

Still haven't reached out to Wix/M&H about the different looking Amazon filter.......

Curious about the possibility of counterfeit Wix filters, I dug around a bit. Instead, it
seems that the new owners of Wix (Mann & Hummel) are 'taking advantage of their
worldwide manufacturing capability'. Long story short, filter geek compared a NOS USA-made
Wix with the (same exact part number) new offshore Wix. (Details over in this thread.)

Digging a little deeper, I discovered that Amazon 'commingles' like things filters from
various sellers when they warehouse the stuff. Sure, when you buy your filter from
'Bubba is the Oil Filter Guy' Amazon gives him the sales credit...but at the same time
they just scoop up the same part number from the bin closest to you and ship that.
(The theory is if all these parts have all the same part numbers, then what's the
difference? And this story was told by a legit seller getting undersold by counterfeit
stuff with the same part number, and Amazon essentially wasn't very interested in
their plight.)

Man, I had no idea this is how they did business. A counterfeiter's dream.

One comment that seemed to ring true is that IF a part is available on Alibaba then
figure that 75% of the time that's exactly what you are going to get from Amazon. :-(
At first most people's reaction was that why would anyone bother to counterfeit a
$6 oil filter? But there is clear evidence that this is happening. And precious-metal
spark plugs would be a perfect ripoff artist magnet as Schurkey documented above.
(Online counterfeit infestation discussion)

...but I digress. Scott2093, given the above I'm guessing that your new Amazon-sourced
Wix filter is either USA good, China good, or counterfeit good. Or it's not even the root cause?

Too bad this occurred, for no doubt you got that oil filter bypass valve back to new
cleanliness. Unfortunately, since the oil filter's ADV and the bypass you cleaned are in
parallel, either they are both working to specification, or no joy.

I don't know what to tell you at this point. It looks like in the other thread there's
a non-Wix recommendation. Either a Made in USA Wix from a brick & mortar store,
or possibly the top-shelf Purolater mentioned in reply #3 of the other thread?

Man, we are living in exciting times. Learned a lot that I didn't care to learn today.
Looks like I'll be buying more stuff from brick-n-mortar & less from Amababa. At
least the stuff I care about -- like oil filters, spark plugs, and drivetrain parts.

 

[Road Trip]

(from reply #234)
"I don't know what to tell you at this point. It looks like in the other thread there's
a non-Wix recommendation. Either a Made in USA Wix from a brick & mortar store,
or possibly the top-shelf Purolater mentioned in reply #3 of the other thread?"

****

Doesn't feel right to identify an issue but not have some sort of recommendation,
or at the very least propose a test to figure out which way to proceed?

So after my previous post I poked around a bit, looking for a Wix vs Purolator
test, this time maybe with a lab test to check how much grit was left behind in
the oil after going through the respective filters?

I found a video where a fairly disciplined test procedure was being followed.
Towards the end of the test I took the following screen grab:

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(credit: YouTube video by the name above: Wix XP vs Purolator Boss)

From watching some of these videos I already knew that the Fram filters were cheaply constructed
on the inside, but I thought the other name brand filters were all neck & neck. But earlier today
I learned that Wix can no longer be thought of as a 100% Made in the USA oil filter.

And according to the video above (made ~ 7 months ago) that there is a non-trivial difference between
the efficacy of the Wix vs the Purolator Boss? Thinking back to the glittery drain oil you showed in reply #107,
(prior to cleaning the lifters and finding no overt cam lobe or roller damage) ...is it possible that a Purolator
Boss could do a better job on your oil? If it was me I'd seriously consider buying a Boss filter and swapping
out just the filter and topping off the oil back to the full mark? (No need to change the new oil.)

Note: Back in the late '70s I used to run the old Frantz oil filter (in addition to the normal oil filter) on
an engine I really cared about. That engine was such a highway star (back in the 55 mph era) that it seemed
like I was always 2 points away from walking to work. :0)

I bought the filter after a friend's dad showed me a little test stand where he took clean oil, added carbon
black to it, then ran the blackened oil through the Frantz filter until the oil was a clear honey color again. Sold!
Anyway, I rebuilt the engine, put a tee on the feed to the mechanical oil pressure gauge, installed the Frantz,
and drove that way for 3 years. And the whole time that engine & engine oil stayed exceptionally clean. (Which
was out of the ordinary back in the late '70s.) It had solid lifters, so every time I was in there I was impressed
by how clean everything remained.

When I sold the car to my buddy, the Frantz went with it. Kinda wish I'd kept it. People would laugh, but
having a no-bypass full-depth filter in addition to the normal full-flow/some bypass filter gave me some of
the cleanest oil I've ever driven. What can I say? Engine oil to me is a lot like toothpicks for Rainman. (246)
Some things simply can't be ignored. :0)

Just some food for thought. Sure would be neat if we could figure out what's up with your powerplant.

 

[alvaroemg]

Geez, I consumed this thread like a kid would his ice cream cone!

Great info, I had adjusted my rockers when I did my heads. To my surprise, truck started right up after assembly. Some rockers needed adjustment, so just like you, I spent countless days taking off the valve covers and adjusting, on and on and on... I got it to run perfect but 2 lifters were ticking bad! Should of replaced them and the spider injector when I did the heads but no.. I wanted to save a pretty penny...

Long story short, I started working out of town for 10 days at a time, coming home and working on the truck.. Wife was not happy.. So I bought new lifters(all 16) and had a guy do the job for me for $300. I'm pretty meticulous so I would of spent a lot of time making sure every lifter was clean throughout If I would of done it, instead of purchasing new.

 

[scott2093]

Sweet!
I'll get a new filter today. TBH, I'm running my old wix since returning the Amazon one and have been planning to anyhow.
I think not knowing what cam and lifters I have is putting a handicap on this process.?
Before starting all of this, one big thing Schurkey mentioned over many threads was that you can't really know what preload is recommended without knowing what you're working with.

But, would it even help if I knew I had say, LS7 lifters? Not saying I do but, if I did, would anything be different as far as how to look at things?

I'll check out the video too.... Then I'll start the paranoia of wondering if the makers of them are tied to one of the filter companies in some way...
Lot of driving to do today... Will be interesting to see how it feels on the highways ..
Thanks!

 

[someotherguy]

Some more oil filter anecdotes..

A while back changing it on the 300 6.1 - normal filter is the M1-204A; I use the M1-301A as the alternate fitment (taller filter.) They had just added the "A" suffix on the filter types, for "annual" (protects up to 1 year or 20,000 miles* - when used with their "annual protection" oil) and not only are filters different heights, they don't even look like they're made by the same company.

M1-301 vs. M1-301A

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I still trust 'em, no reason not to, but as I implied earlier.. I wonder where that trust really comes from, other than just the perception of the brand name? I "trust" Mobil1 synthetic oil because that was the factory fill when my SRT8 was brand new. (They have a deal with Pennzoil now; I ain't switchin!)

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Richard

 

[someotherguy]

Then there's Hadji and the gang.. hey; I think I spy some of my filter components being made

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Richard

 

[Road Trip]

Some more oil filter anecdotes..

I still trust 'em, no reason not to, but as I implied earlier.. I wonder where that trust really comes from, other than just the perception of the brand name? I "trust" Mobil1 synthetic oil because that was the factory fill when my SRT8 was brand new.

Richard

Moving away from the third rail of motorhead discussions (ie: motor oil :0) I think that when it
comes to people -or- parts, real trust comes from how they behave/deliver under pressure, not
how they look.**

For example, in the land of electronic test equipment, back in my scope dope daze for me there were
all the scopes where I spent as much/more time fighting the equipment to see what I wanted to see
as actually troubleshooting the part under test. Like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, all I
remember was the frustration and being made to feel stupid.

So the first time I got to use a Tektronix (analog) scope, it was just different. And my mentors could
see/measure anything they desired with the Tek. And I have never been disappointed by one.

Same thing for the Fluke multimeter. Once I get to the point where 2 different consumer-grade multimeters
disagree with each other, then out comes the Fluke, reserved for just such occasions. Again, I've never been
disappointed by a Fluke. In the land of high performance electronics, I am only as good as my test equipment. (!)

At the moment, I'm trying to figure out how what test gear I really need in order to cheat to win in these modern closed-loop
engine bays. A bidirectional scan tool that can perform the CKP relearn in addition to the CMPret would be a nice start, and
also being able to do the ABS bleed underhood would be faster than finding the nearest gravel road I guess. And
the troubleshooting dudes using the full on Pico scopes have my attention. But like always, my
test equipment dreams are always bigger than my piggybank. :0)

...but I digress. Looks like I'm getting ready to Pledge Allegiance to a different brand of oil filter. If the chore truck is
going to outlast me, I'd like it to outlast me and continue to serve my family for a good, long while.

Cheers --


**Of course there is always an outlier when it comes to a saying.
Gary Larson used to draw stuff that made me laugh out loud and
stick in my head. (See attached.)