14 bolt drums

[EKOBS]

Does anyone have advice for quality drums for this? I’ve just put on some new Bendix drums and the run-out is insane, actually visible. I’ve tried adjusting them with a hammer and careful tightening of the studs, but this is not going to get me anywhere close to o.k.

 

[Schurkey]

Any common drums are going to be Chinese. The quality will be variable.

MAYBE there are some "boutique" brands with non-Communist drums for sale. I don't know about 'em.

Haul the defective ones back to the store, have them get you a replacement set...and hope they're better.

For the record...WHICH "14-bolt" is this? Kinda guessing 9.5" semi-float. Are you sure it's the drums that are out-of-round, and not a bent axle shaft, or shaft flange? No contamination on the flange to prevent the drum from seating "flat" on the flange?

 

[Road Trip]

Does anyone have advice for quality drums for this? I’ve just put on some new Bendix drums and the run-out is insane, actually visible. I’ve tried adjusting them with a hammer and careful tightening of the studs, but this is not going to get me anywhere close to o.k.

Greetings EKOBS,

Last summer I was faced with a similar situation. Here's a quick summary,
followed by some questions & a recommendation based on my own
experiences.

****

Thanks to the PO deleting the RR parking brake cable & the need to get
a NY safety inspection sticker this past summer, I was forced to open up
the right rear drum brake on my '99 C2500. (8-lug, JD7 brakes)

Upon opening, I was surprised by deeply heat-cracked shoes, for the truck
had been stopping without any misbehavior up to this point? Found the same
heat cracking on the driver's side, so this meant that I had no choice but to do a
complete refresh of the rear brakes.

So my first thought was to bite the bullet & replace the old 13" drums with new, OEM quality
in order to match all the other new bits. But the more I read, the more I realized that buying
new drums in 2023 was going to be a complete crapshoot at best.

Realistically speaking, I needed to budget for a pair of new brake drums PLUS having
them immediately turned by a local brake specialist to true them up, and then put
them on the truck. (NOTE: I really dislike vibrating/shuddering brakes, just as
unacceptable as driving with bad steering.)

So I decided to see if my 'well behaved' original drums could be turned just enough
to clean them up for the new shoes I was installing? It took a bit of searching, but
after calling several businesses with no joy, I was finally referred to the last business
in the greater Syracuse area that still machines brake drums.

And they nailed it. The guy that did the work (Mike) has been doing this for 25+ years.
They charged me a flat $20 per drum for their work. During reassembly, when I
adjusted the new shoes for a *slight* drag, they did so evenly throughout the
full 360° of rotation. Best of all, once the truck was back on the road, the rear
brakes perform flawlessly.

The company I used was PBS Brake & Supply. Here's their contact info:

PBS Brake & Supply -- 6044 Corporate Dr. East Syracuse, NY -- ph: (315) 463-4541

You must be registered for see images attach

NOTE: They are located in an industrial park area near the southeast corner of the Syracuse International Airport.

****

I realize that Buffalo is too far away for you to justify using these folks, but
I'm thinking that you must have a similar brake specialty business in your neck
of the woods? (And if you can't locate them, possibly call the folks at PBS Brake
and ask them if they have a place in Buffalo they either own or could recommend?)

Thinking back to my own situation, when they checked my 13" drums, they stated
that they had never been turned, so no problem turning them. (They weren't
going to touch them if they were already oversize or would have to be cut oversize in
order to clean them up. Follow this LINK to see what I ended up with.)

Q1: Are you retiring your old drums because they are unserviceable? Or were you
thinking (like I was) that new should be better than old? If you are lucky, possibly
your old drums can be remachined, allowing you to return those bogus new drums
for a refund?

Q2: Assuming you get these new, out of spec drums replaced under warranty, if
the replacements spin true then you should be good to go. But if the 2nd set is also out of
round, would you be willing to have them trued up by a local brake specialist?

****

Just throwing out some ideas for you to ponder. Although I'm pretty frugal,
my decisions on the brakes were driven by performance, not price. Just
happened that the best of all worlds was remachining the OEM drums that
the truck came with.

10+ years ago, the above would have sounded ludicrous. But for a bunch
of reasons outside the scope of this discussion, it's a brave new world we're
living in. Every single thing now falls into the "Trust, but Verify" category. :-(

Best of luck getting this sorted out.

Cheers --

 

[Caman96]

Greetings EKOBS,

Last summer I was faced with a similar situation. Here's a quick summary,
followed by some questions & a recommendation based on my own
experiences.

****

Thanks to the PO deleting the RR parking brake cable & the need to get
a NY safety inspection sticker this past summer, I was forced to open up
the right rear drum brake on my '99 C2500. (8-lug, JD7 brakes)

Upon opening, I was surprised by deeply heat-cracked shoes, for the truck
had been stopping without any misbehavior up to this point? Found the same
heat cracking on the driver's side, so this meant that I had no choice but to do a
complete refresh of the rear brakes.

So my first thought was to bite the bullet & replace the old 13" drums with new, OEM quality
in order to match all the other new bits. But the more I read, the more I realized that buying
new drums in 2023 was going to be a complete crapshoot at best.

Realistically speaking, I needed to budget for a pair of new brake drums PLUS having
them immediately turned by a local brake specialist to true them up, and then put
them on the truck. (NOTE: I really dislike vibrating/shuddering brakes, just as
unacceptable as driving with bad steering.)

So I decided to see if my 'well behaved' original drums could be turned just enough
to clean them up for the new shoes I was installing? It took a bit of searching, but
after calling several businesses with no joy, I was finally referred to the last business
in the greater Syracuse area that still machines brake drums.

And they nailed it. The guy that did the work (Mike) has been doing this for 25 years.
They charged me a flat $20 per drum for their work. During reassembly, when I
adjusted the new shoes for a *slight* drag, they did so evenly throughout the
full 360° of rotation. Best of all, once the truck was back on the road, the rear
brakes perform flawlessly.

The company I used was PBS Brake & Supply. Here's their contact info:

PBS Brake & Supply -- 6044 Corporate Dr. East Syracuse, NY -- ph: (315) 463-4541

You must be registered for see images attach

NOTE: They are located in an industrial park area near the southeast corner of the Syracuse International Airport.

****

I realize that Buffalo is too far away for you to justify using these folks, but
I'm thinking that you must have a similar brake specialty business in your neck
of the woods? (And if you can't locate them, possibly call the folks at PBS Brake
and ask them if they have a place in Buffalo they either own or could recommend?

Thinking back to my own situation, when they checked my 13" drums, they stated
that they had never been turned, so no problem turning them. (They weren't
going to touch them if they already oversize or would have to be cut oversize to clean
them up. Follow this LINK to see what I ended up with.)

Q1: Are you retiring your old drums because they are unserviceable? Or were you
thinking (like I was) that new is always better than old? If you are lucky, possibly
your old drums can be remachined, allowing you to return those bogus new drums
for a refund?

Q2: Assuming you get these new, out of spec drums replaced under warranty, if
the replacements spin true then you should be good to go. But if the 2nd set is also out of
round, would you be willing to have them trued up by a local brake specialist?

****

Just throwing out some ideas for you to ponder. Although I'm pretty frugal,
my decisions on the brakes were driven by performance, not price. Just
happened that the best of all worlds was remachining the OEM drums that
the truck came with.

10+ years ago, the above would have sounded ludicrous. But for a bunch
of reasons outside the scope of this discussion, it's a brave new world we're
living in. Every single thing now falls into the "Trust, but Verify" category. :-(

Best of luck getting this sorted out.

Cheers --

I may end up doing this. Similar situation, bought new Raysbestos drums for my winter Tacoma, did complete rear brakes. There was no vibration or brake pulsation before but with new drums being unbalanced AND out of round I got vibration at speed and braking. Drove back put OE drums on. No vibration, no brakes pulsating. So RockAuto sends out another pair. I still get brake pulsation, not as much, but noticeable. I had taken the OE drums to local parts store, they said they were out of spec and couldn’t be turned. I’m tempted to put them back on.

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

Greetings EKOBS,

Last summer I was faced with a similar situation. Here's a quick summary,
followed by some questions & a recommendation based on my own
experiences.

****

Thanks to the PO deleting the RR parking brake cable & the need to get
a NY safety inspection sticker this past summer, I was forced to open up
the right rear drum brake on my '99 C2500. (8-lug, JD7 brakes)

Upon opening, I was surprised by deeply heat-cracked shoes, for the truck
had been stopping without any misbehavior up to this point? Found the same
heat cracking on the driver's side, so this meant that I had no choice but to do a
complete refresh of the rear brakes.

So my first thought was to bite the bullet & replace the old 13" drums with new, OEM quality
in order to match all the other new bits. But the more I read, the more I realized that buying
new drums in 2023 was going to be a complete crapshoot at best.

Realistically speaking, I needed to budget for a pair of new brake drums PLUS having
them immediately turned by a local brake specialist to true them up, and then put
them on the truck. (NOTE: I really dislike vibrating/shuddering brakes, just as
unacceptable as driving with bad steering.)

So I decided to see if my 'well behaved' original drums could be turned just enough
to clean them up for the new shoes I was installing? It took a bit of searching, but
after calling several businesses with no joy, I was finally referred to the last business
in the greater Syracuse area that still machines brake drums.

And they nailed it. The guy that did the work (Mike) has been doing this for 25 years.
They charged me a flat $20 per drum for their work. During reassembly, when I
adjusted the new shoes for a *slight* drag, they did so evenly throughout the
full 360° of rotation. Best of all, once the truck was back on the road, the rear
brakes perform flawlessly.

The company I used was PBS Brake & Supply. Here's their contact info:

PBS Brake & Supply -- 6044 Corporate Dr. East Syracuse, NY -- ph: (315) 463-4541

You must be registered for see images attach

NOTE: They are located in an industrial park area near the southeast corner of the Syracuse International Airport.

****

I realize that Buffalo is too far away for you to justify using these folks, but
I'm thinking that you must have a similar brake specialty business in your neck
of the woods? (And if you can't locate them, possibly call the folks at PBS Brake
and ask them if they have a place in Buffalo they either own or could recommend?

Thinking back to my own situation, when they checked my 13" drums, they stated
that they had never been turned, so no problem turning them. (They weren't
going to touch them if they already oversize or would have to be cut oversize to clean
them up. Follow this LINK to see what I ended up with.)

Q1: Are you retiring your old drums because they are unserviceable? Or were you
thinking (like I was) that new is always better than old? If you are lucky, possibly
your old drums can be remachined, allowing you to return those bogus new drums
for a refund?

Q2: Assuming you get these new, out of spec drums replaced under warranty, if
the replacements spin true then you should be good to go. But if the 2nd set is also out of
round, would you be willing to have them trued up by a local brake specialist?

****

Just throwing out some ideas for you to ponder. Although I'm pretty frugal,
my decisions on the brakes were driven by performance, not price. Just
happened that the best of all worlds was remachining the OEM drums that
the truck came with.

10+ years ago, the above would have sounded ludicrous. But for a bunch
of reasons outside the scope of this discussion, it's a brave new world we're
living in. Every single thing now falls into the "Trust, but Verify" category. :-(

Best of luck getting this sorted out.

Cheers --

I guess the way everything else has gone up, that's not a bad price (especially considering the shop and tech know what they're doing). When we had our parts store back in the '80s, the going rate for car and light truck drums turned was $3.50, $5 for larger ones. Rotors were $7.50 for car and light truck, and I don't think I ever had anything bigger than the 11 5/32" square body drums to turn.
But back in those days, drums and rotors were American made too....
Personally I figure those 13" drums are so heavy, they've been dropped a few times. I have a pair of them, and I bet they weigh 50# each....

 

[Schurkey]

When I was "in the business", we measured every rotor, and every brake drum (rotors and drums are collectively "iron") on vehicles we were doing "brake jobs" on. Every rotor and every drum ("iron") got turned if they were still meaty enough to be "in spec" for re-use when we were done cutting them.

We only sold new iron when the originals were too-far-gone to be turned. "Iron" was expensive. We had our own brake lathe, ancient but it worked. Of course, GM was starting to use "soft" iron alloy on brake rotors. HEAVY scoring, but they didn't squeal when the brakes were applied. Put a LOT of new rotors on Citations and other FWD GM vehicles.

Point is, if we installed shoes or pads (collectively, "friction")...the vehicle got remachined or sometimes new iron, for the friction to rub against.

Enter the Chinese.

"Iron" got dirt-cheap. Wasn't "economical" to turn iron when a new one cost the same or less than the labor to remachine the old one. Of course, quality suffered, and sometimes the "new" iron had to be turned anyway to make it run true.

I bought the shop's brake lathe, and bought measuring tools to verify rotor/drum condition.

Take a look at the GM official service manual for your vehicle. MOST rotors and drums don't need to be re-machined at all. If the "wear" is minimal, they can be reinstalled as-is, and with GMs official blessing. If the wear exceeds the service manual limit for scoring, warpage, etc; then they get cut or replaced.

Do keep in mind that there's TWO "limits" for wear: The easy one is the thickness cast or stamped right into the iron: The "Discard" limit. When the iron meets or exceeds the Discard limit, that iron is DONE. But you can't machine "to" the discard limit, as there has to be enough material that the "friction" can wear away in service and still be better than the discard limit. So the iron can only be machined to a limit less than the discard thickness or diameter. This is the "Machining" limit; generally .030 smaller than the discard limit for drums and .015 thicker than the discard limit for rotors, but there's plenty of exceptions.

 

[454cid]

Last time I checked on getting mine turned was about 8 to 10 years ago. Commercial truck shop that I had taken company work to... they wanted stupid money to do it. I don't recall the exact number, but I think it was something like $75 for the pair. I passed on that.

 

[Schurkey]

Last time I checked on getting mine turned was about 8 to 10 years ago. Commercial truck shop that I had taken company work to... they wanted stupid money to do it. I don't recall the exact number, but I think it was something like $75 for the pair. I passed on that.

Yeah, I would too.

That must be the "pi_ss off, we don't want to deal with it" price. That, or you're dealing with heavy 3/4- or 1-ton rotors/drums. That's beyond what my brake lathe will accept. We used to have to outsource the remachining of the bigger iron.

 

[Road Trip]

I guess the way everything else has gone up, that's not a bad price (especially considering the shop and tech know what they're doing). When we had our parts store back in the '80s, the going rate for car and light truck drums turned was $3.50, $5 for larger ones. Rotors were $7.50 for car and light truck, and I don't think I ever had anything bigger than the 11 5/32" square body drums to turn.
But back in those days, drums and rotors were American made too....
Personally I figure those 13" drums are so heavy, they've been dropped a few times. I have a pair of them, and I bet they weigh 50# each....

Those 13" drums were so heavy that I had to find out what they weighed. So I weighed myself, followed by
weighing myself clutching one drum/hub assembly. The difference in weight was a cool 64 pounds.
(I think the drums alone must be at least 50 lbs, but that hub/8 stud assy is a pretty meaty component
all by itself, and it all comes off the truck as a single unit.)

Heaviest drums I've ever had the pleasure to lug around. But I promise you that (especially after
they were remachined) ...I was treating them like they were made of pure unobtanium. :0)

****

And yes, in the summer of '23 I'll admit that I was pleasantly surprised when they shot me a labor charge of $20 apiece.
Cheerfully paid my $40 bill & skedaddled before they changed their mind. Solid business/employees to deal with. (!)

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

Yeah, I would too.

That must be the "pi_ss off, we don't want to deal with it" price.

I know the lathe we had was an Ammco Model 3000, last of the manual operation units. It had cones and cups for mounting the drum or rotor to the lathe for machining. They had a basic set that would do most car and light truck applications, and then you could buy additional adapters for the bigger drums and rotors, and for turning flywheels and the foreign car drums with no center holes. We just had the basic stuff, because there was very few times I needed anything different.
In late 1987 when we closed the store, they were just starting to come out with the computer operated lathe that did a lot of the figures and setup automatically. Or that's what the rep said; didn't matter to me really because had we found another location to move to and reopened, I knew how to run this one. On a good weekend, I was turning several sets, Saturday and Sunday.