Oil Filters with good anti-drainback valves?

[scott2093]

Have you at least begun to suspect these "noises" have zero to do with ADVs on oil filters since all of them do it on your truck? Combined with we don't seem to have this issue regardless of filter?

Not sure if you're talking to me or not but yes. I've suspected whatever I can since I first heard it... You haven't visited Florida recently have you?..lol
but in all seriousness post #198 I brought it up again... I've been bringing it up since the beginning of the thread....

Truck has been having a couple taps at startup. I know it's "normal". Today when leaving a parking spot it tapped for a good minute or so and then quieted down.....

It just bugs me because it has never done this before. Ever. Not until I messed with the lifters....

1993 Yukon crate motor hydraulic roller lifter cleaning and adjustment journey - (Solved)

I can do that for you if you'd like, just let me know what you'd like the title changed to. HHmm. It's definitely derailed from the original title.. Maybe I can get some other feedback first but... 1993 Yukon crate motor hydraulic roller lifter cleaning and adjustment journey Seems...

www.gmt400.com

I'm actually going to adjust the valves in a bit and deal with the full turn performance vs the 3/4 where they should be at now...actually would rather be at 1/2 turn....performance seems better...idle smoother...etv....
. Something tells me this startup tap issue will disappear since Schurkey said the bleed down won't be as much to compensate for with more preload.....

 

[El Tigre]

Never did it before messing with liters? Gee, wonder if this has something to do with this "issue". Have no way of knowing how the valvetrain was adjusted. If done with the motor running? I can practically guarantee that many (if not most) are adjusted differently from each other, and wrong.

 

[Scooterwrench]

Not sure if you're talking to me or not but yes. I've suspected whatever I can since I first heard it... You haven't visited Florida recently have you?..lol
but in all seriousness post #198 I brought it up again... I've been bringing it up since the beginning of the thread....

1993 Yukon crate motor hydraulic roller lifter cleaning and adjustment journey - (Solved)

I can do that for you if you'd like, just let me know what you'd like the title changed to. HHmm. It's definitely derailed from the original title.. Maybe I can get some other feedback first but... 1993 Yukon crate motor hydraulic roller lifter cleaning and adjustment journey Seems...

www.gmt400.com

I'm actually going to adjust the valves in a bit and deal with the full turn performance vs the 3/4 where they should be at now...actually would rather be at 1/2 turn....performance seems better...idle smoother...etv....
. Something tells me this startup tap issue will disappear since Schurkey said the bleed down won't be as much to compensate for with more preload.....

1/2 turn will give you more bottom end torque, full turn will give you more top end pull. I've always done a full turn on stock type lifters. The optimum is to measure plunger travel then set the preload at 80%.

 

[Frank Enstein]

Easiest solution is to install an Accusump, and an electric valve.
Puts the entire system under positive oil pressure before the starter engages.

Beat me to it!

 

[Frank Enstein]

O-ring? Aren’t our pickups pressed into the pump?

Not on a Gen III/IV small block AKA "LS" engines.

 

[Frank Enstein]

can bad valve stem seals also be a cause of the few tap startup deal?

I don't see how. A little puff of oil , yes but tapping on startup no.

 

[scott2093]

Never did it before messing with liters? Gee, wonder if this has something to do with this "issue". Have no way of knowing how the valvetrain was adjusted. If done with the motor running?

Yeah.. Of course I didn't type "Never did it before messing with liters " many times on the thread since the beginning not thinking the same thing. As things progressed, many operational bits of knowledge were gained and I was hoping that, since the lifters were cleaned spotless and adjusted to where many suggested as opposed to where they were, that it may have created new or revealed other issues, like not using a proper oil filter with anti-drainback, tried, dirty bypass valve in oil filter housing, cleaned, air getting into the system....lifters bleeding down...
The thread is quite informative of the entire process including how they were adjusted.(Schurkey method and hot running...both almost identical results with same amount of threads showing when done)..etc...feel free to look over it if you think something stands out that was missed. I definitely won't complain if there's any extra advice.

1/2 turn will give you more bottom end torque, full turn will give you more top end pull. I've always done a full turn on stock type lifters. The optimum is to measure plunger travel then set the preload at 80%.

That's the thing, I don't know what lifters or cam I have. It's a crate motor and had roller lifters to my surprise. You'd think that being at 1/2 turn or 3/4 turn would be fine and it is as far as how quiet the engine is. The lifters are very quiet. I've run 1/2 turn all the way to a turn and a sixteenth.. Quiet...

It's just the startup tapping gets worse with less preload but I like the performance and idle there best.
With more preload, the startup tapping is pretty much diminished , need to verify again, but I don't like the way the idle feels as much or the response....
So I've been hoping to have the best of all worlds but will have to make a compromise.

Hopefully more preload will start feel better since I've gotten a new damper installed, the old one was getting pretty shaky, and I can just work from there..

 

[El Tigre]

Adjusting the rocker arm pre-lash with the motor running has got to be the single worst way.
Probably why no shop manuals, and/or any valvetrain/camshaft mfg. recommend, or even suggest it be done this way. More popular 30-40 years ago with flat tappet camshafts. On roller cams it's easily possible to set the valves too tight. Never in my life have I witnessed such preoccupation with oil filter anti-drain-back valves. They do make in-line check valves that positively shut when oil flow stops. One can easily source filters w/o the drain-back valve in my engine. Once installed I predict zero difference in noise or pressure

 

[Scooterwrench]

Yeah.. Of course I didn't type "Never did it before messing with liters " many times on the thread since the beginning not thinking the same thing. As things progressed, many operational bits of knowledge were gained and I was hoping that, since the lifters were cleaned spotless and adjusted to where many suggested as opposed to where they were, that it may have created new or revealed other issues, like not using a proper oil filter with anti-drainback, tried, dirty bypass valve in oil filter housing, cleaned, air getting into the system....lifters bleeding down...
The thread is quite informative of the entire process including how they were adjusted.(Schurkey method and hot running...both almost identical results with same amount of threads showing when done)..etc...feel free to look over it if you think something stands out that was missed. I definitely won't complain if there's any extra advice.

That's the thing, I don't know what lifters or cam I have. It's a crate motor and had roller lifters to my surprise. You'd think that being at 1/2 turn or 3/4 turn would be fine and it is as far as how quiet the engine is. The lifters are very quiet. I've run 1/2 turn all the way to a turn and a sixteenth.. Quiet...

It's just the startup tapping gets worse with less preload but I like the performance and idle there best.
With more preload, the startup tapping is pretty much diminished , need to verify again, but I don't like the way the idle feels as much or the response....
So I've been hoping to have the best of all worlds but will have to make a compromise.

Hopefully more preload will start feel better since I've gotten a new damper installed, the old one was getting pretty shaky, and I can just work from there..

That crate motor will have stock lifters so 1 turn after 0 lash is what you want to run. Running the lifters loose could allow them to bounce up off the cam lobe then crash back down on it causing lobe damage.
There are a couple ways to determine 0 lash. Both ways start with backing the rocker off till it's loose.
Important tip!!!!!!!! When adjusting valves never let your socket extend below the bottom of the nut. What happens is the socket will push against the rocker ball and give you a false reading of 0 lash. Always remove your socket and make sure it wasn't pushing the rocker.
The most important thing to successful valve adjustment is making sure you're on the heel of the cam lobe. You can start by finding TDC #1 compression stroke and follow the firing order or roll the engine by hand until the valve you are adjusting is pushed all the way open then roll the crank 1 full turn. That will put you right on the center of the lobes heel.

First way is to adjust valves is to spin the pushrod with your fingers while slowly tightening the rocker nut until you just start to feel resistance, that is 0 lash. Then give the nut 1 turn.
The second way is to shake the rocker arm side to side while slowly tightening the nut just until all the slop goes away then 1 turn. This is the method I prefer.

 

[scott2093]

That crate motor will have stock lifters

I'm confused. Isn't stock for a 93 flat tappet? Mine has rollers.
Do you mean stock roller lifters? What would they be? L98?
I think the motor was bought in 2006 ish if I had to guess

Running the lifters loose could allow them to bounce up off the cam lobe then crash back down on it causing lobe damage.

That's not good. Been running them like this for a few months or so.......Is that where my new streaky glitterish oil since messing with my lifters has been coming from?

There are a couple ways to determine 0 lash. Both ways start with backing the rocker off till it's loose.
Important tip!!!!!!!! When adjusting valves never let your socket extend below the bottom of the nut. What happens is the socket will push against the rocker ball and give you a false reading of 0 lash. Always remove your socket and make sure it wasn't pushing the rocker.

Yes I'm familiar with what you're saying. I don't really want to derail this thread too much as I feel I have already and, everything was pretty much covered in my thread. I screwed up my first attempt at a cold adjustment when I started my lifter journey. Everything was varnished and dirty, it was my first time and I tried the GM method from manual thand feeling it roll between my fingers....
Then tried hot running and goofed that up by not realizing the lifters would clatter but then quiet down if left clattering, so they weren't ready to be taken to zero lash yet.
Once I got the hang of it and understood thanks to other members' help, it became easier. It was so easy right after cleaning the lifters to do a cold adjustment.


I'm going to continue my other thread because some new questions I have since tonight.

One can easily source filters w/o the drain-back valve in my engine. Once installed I predict zero difference in noise or pressure

yes I usually ran both versions of STP filters and never had any issues...probably ran some others as well....Never specifically looking for that feature. Didn't even know about it before.......I think they did have anti-drain back after the fact....
Like I've mentioned before, I just wasn't sure if making improvements by cleaning the lifters may have made them more sensitive to the needs of the bypass,drainback etc....

On roller cams it's easily possible to set the valves too tight.

Yes I'm aware of this but feel pretty good I know pretty much exactly where I'm at within a 1/16 turn at most. And, like I've mentioned, after setting a cold preload using the method Schurkey talks about and then redoing it again with a running adjustment , the threads showing on the top of the rocker nuts are extremely similar..

Sorry for the derail...
feel free to move these last few posts to my lifter thread if you want....
I'm heading there now...lol