Moog VS Mevotech Price VS Quality

[Supercharged111]

buying the whole arm is worth it.

Disagree with conditions. If you have a not rusty arm to start with, and are a cheapass and a glutton for punishment like me, then the whole arm is not worth it. You have less control over the bushings and joints that come in it, and then of course the quality of the arm itself.

 

[Caman96]

Disagree with conditions. If you have a not rusty arm to start with, and are a cheapass and a glutton for punishment like me, then the whole arm is not worth it. You have less control over the bushings and joints that come in it, and then of course the quality of the arm itself.

I’m cheap too. So, I found a cheap pair of Acdelco’s. I did remove the “cheap” ball joints and replaced with TTX. For the time spent removing and replacing bushings I earn more in overtime at work. So, for me it was worth it. I did save the original UCA”s, next time I probably will use those and replace bushings. I’ll be retired by then though.

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[Schurkey]

Removing and installing bonded-rubber bushings requires a press or equivalent tool. No fun at all.

Removing rubber bushings, and installing Polyurethane bushings is remarkably easy provided you have an ordinary propane torch and:
1. The old bushings aren't so wiped-out that the outer shell is damaged, and
2. The Poly bushing kit comes with all eight of the metal inner sleeves--four lower, four upper.
3. The end-caps for the upper control arm bushings have to be cleaned-up and re-used.

The Poly control arm bushing kits I've seen for GMT400 vehicles don't have the inner sleeves for the upper arms. They supply new sleeves for the lower arms, but not the upper.

Upper sleeves are typically too rusted to re-use. I had to fabricate new sleeves for my '88 K1500. Easy with a lathe, not easy with tools belonging to Primitive Pete.

One sleeve as removed from the bushing, the other after being cleaned-up on a wire wheel.

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New and old sleeves, and a Poly bushing insert:

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[Supercharged111]

Removing and installing bonded-rubber bushings requires a press or equivalent tool. No fun at all.

Removing rubber bushings, and installing Polyurethane bushings is remarkably easy provided you have an ordinary propane torch and:
1. The old bushings aren't so wiped-out that the outer shell is damaged, and
2. The Poly bushing kit comes with all eight of the metal inner sleeves--four lower, four upper.
3. The end-caps for the upper control arm bushings have to be cleaned-up and re-used.

The Poly control arm bushing kits I've seen for GMT400 vehicles don't have the inner sleeves for the upper arms. They supply new sleeves for the lower arms, but not the upper.

Upper sleeves are typically too rusted to re-use. I had to fabricate new sleeves for my '88 K1500. Easy with a lathe, not easy with tools belonging to Primitive Pete.

One sleeve as removed from the bushing, the other after being cleaned-up on a wire wheel.

You must be registered for see images attach

New and old sleeves, and a Poly bushing insert:

You must be registered for see images attach

Have you observed any deformation over time with the poly bushings? I've been kicking the idea of them around for my dually. With the MASSIVE camper in the bed it really strokes that front end both ways (giggity!) pretty far. In the road course world with Corvettes, they see deformation in poly control arm bushings, but the forces seen there vs our trucks are completely different.

 

[Schurkey]

Have you observed any deformation over time with the poly bushings?

None. I've put them on GM 64--'72 A-bodies front and rear, '66--'78 Toronados (GM E-body), my K1500, and a '75--79 GM X-body along with a '77 GM F-body.

I've been kicking the idea of them around for my dually. With the MASSIVE camper in the bed it really strokes that front end both ways (giggity!) pretty far.

Try it, you'll like it--aside from the requirement to make your own upper-bushing sleeves. As said, this is NOTHING if you have a lathe. I don't. Took me hours and hours, basically an entire work-day.

I suggest that you buy an extra few packets (or the 8-oz tub) of the "special grease" supplied with the bushings. It's the stickiest grease I've ever worked with. Use plenty.
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In the road course world with Corvettes, they see deformation in poly control arm bushings, but the forces seen there vs our trucks are completely different.

First I've heard of that. But then, there's no road racing anywhere near me. A once-yearly autocross is all we get aside from the dirt circle-burners.

 

[Caman96]

I don’t understand why the aftermarket poly bushing manufacturers don’t make the sleeves.

As said, this is NOTHING if you have a lathe. I don't. Took me hours and hours, basically an entire work-day.

This, to me, is another reason to just buy loaded a-arms. And another would be the reported harshness associated with poly. Seems logical that rubber absorbs better than poly, so that “Energy” is being passed onto parts, which means quicker wear on parts.

This seems like a fair assessment:

Suspension Bushings: Polyurethane Vs. Rubber | Poly-Tek

Suspension Bushings Polyurethane bushings and rubber bushings are both commonly used in a variety of automotive and mechanical applications to provide a flexible connection between two parts, allowing for movement and vibration damping. However, there are several key differences between the two...

www.poly-tek.com

Scroll down to Summary for basic assessment.

 

[Caman96]

Have you observed any deformation over time with the poly bushings? I've been kicking the idea of them around for my dually. With the MASSIVE camper in the bed it really strokes that front end both ways (giggity!) pretty far. In the road course world with Corvettes, they see deformation in poly control arm bushings, but the forces seen there vs our trucks are completely different.

I’ve read some on this, obviously I can’t confirm. Here’s one:

Polyurethane and its variations (like poly graphite) have no business being used in any rotational bushing application. This means leaf springs, a-arms, trailing arms, strut rods ect...

The basic reasons are:

1) A rubber a-arm bushing does not rotate in the mount. Rather the movement comes from the rubber flexing between 2 metal sleeves as the a-arm travels up and down. This is evident if you remove the springs from a rubber-bushing car while it is in the air. The a-arms do not drop.
With a poly bushing there is no flex (or metal sleeves for that matter) so it is forced to rotate in the seat. The problem is that the rotation is not a clean motion. It’s jerky, and inconsistent. The squeak is a symptom of suspension bind, but just because you don't hear it does not mean that there is no bind

2) Over time all Polyurethane goes through what is called "cold flow". Without getting into the chemistry, the urethane bushings are more of a very dense gel than a solid compound. Over time rotational bushings go from a round shape to more of an oblong egg shape. Needless to say this is a bad thing.

 

[Schurkey]

I don’t understand why the aftermarket poly bushing manufacturers don’t make the sleeves.

You and me, both.

What I have seen is that the upper bushings that are not supplied with the inner sleeves, are also the ones that use eccentrics on the upper control arm for caster/camber adjustment. And, in using eccentrics, the bushings have metal end-caps that press into the inner sleeve.

This, to me, is another reason to just buy loaded a-arms.

Which is fine if you want OEM-level ride 'n' handling, AND the aftermarket supplier is building a quality part with quality rubber. Rubber windshield wiper blades barely make it six months. Tires are said to be aged-out at ten years. This was not always the case, rubber is being formulated with a short service life (in terms of age) so you're forced to replace rubber parts more-often.

I won't make any promises on the rubber composition of loaded control arms--although I did install loaded upper arms on my '97 K2500.

And another would be the reported harshness associated with poly. Seems logical that rubber absorbs better than poly, so that “Energy” is being passed onto parts, which means quicker wear on parts.

Rubber tends to be "softer", Poly tends to be "harder".

What you call harshness, I call improved suspension control and less control arm compliance, so the alignment angles are retained better on rough roads, or when stopping--those same places that rubber isolates the chassis and gets sloppy.

This seems like a fair assessment:

Suspension Bushings: Polyurethane Vs. Rubber | Poly-Tek

Suspension Bushings Polyurethane bushings and rubber bushings are both commonly used in a variety of automotive and mechanical applications to provide a flexible connection between two parts, allowing for movement and vibration damping. However, there are several key differences between the two...

www.poly-tek.com

Scroll down to Summary for basic assessment.

The worst-squeaking bushings I ever dealt with were the upper, OEM, rubber bushings on a Ford Maverick.

Ford actually had a service bulletin where the destroyed bushings weren't to be replaced, they were to have the outer shell drilled so that a grease zerk could be installed, and then greased periodically.

Of course, bonded-rubber bushings don't need grease until AFTER they've had the bonding fail. So the proper fix for this would be to replace the ruined bushings, not flood them with lube.

Similarly, the upper bushings on Mom's Nova squeaked after they failed, got replaced with Poly, and have been silent ever since.

2) Over time all Polyurethane goes through what is called "cold flow". Without getting into the chemistry, the urethane bushings are more of a very dense gel than a solid compound. Over time rotational bushings go from a round shape to more of an oblong egg shape. Needless to say this is a bad thing.

"Over time..."? How much time? Rubber bushings are good for about ten years. (They'll hang-on in deteriorated condition for longer than that.) If Poly lasts longer than that (it does, at least in my experience which does not involve racing) it represents an improvement in service life.

For the record, ordinary glass is also a cold-flow material. If windows in a house are old enough, the glass will be thicker at the bottom than at the top. It's just enormously-viscous, so it takes decades or centuries to become obvious.

 

[Erik the Awful]

Removing rubber bushings, and installing Polyurethane bushings is remarkably easy provided you have an ordinary propane torch

Or a heat gun. I laid my control arm on the concrete pad in front of my shop and laid the heat gun down beside it on the hottest setting. After a couple minutes it sounded like a jet on afterburner. Once the rubber heats up all that hot air being shot at it just feeds the fire. A couple minutes later the rubber expanded and shoved itself out of the bushing. Then I just had to punch the shell inward and it fell out. No press required.

Schurkey's right about the inner bushings. It's shameful that they don't include those in the kit, but I think it's an odd size and it's not "economically viable" for Energy Suspension to make them. I got lucky when I rebuilt the suspension on WCJr, and I had some conduit in my scrap pile and some tubing with the right inner diameter. The conduit might be 3/4" EMT

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[Rock Hard Concrete]

For the record, ordinary glass is also a cold-flow material. If windows in a house are old enough, the glass will be thicker at the bottom than at the top. It's just enormously-viscous, so it takes decades or centuries to become obvious.

This is actually an old myth. Old time window manufacturing was not super consistent, when workers built the windows, they would orient the thicker portion towards the bottom, hence the myth. You are correct that regular glass is a cold flow material since it lacks a crystalline structure, but not enough for window panes to droop. https://gizmodo.com/the-glass-is-a-liquid-myth-has-finally-been-destroyed-496190894