Front end rebuild question/suggestions

[TreeGeared]

I had similar experiences with aftermarket rebuilt steering boxes. They all had noticeable play. Even tried adjusting the bearing pre load. I finally ended up with a new not rebuilt unit that has been good. Make sure you don't have a problem with the pitman arm instead of the gearbox itself.

Some of the Metovech offerrings have larger bearing surfaces and seem beefier. However I used those but I also have a tie rod with less than 10K showing play.

May want to look at TRW. In a previous job I delt with them and they made many of their parts in Mexico. They also supply many of the OEMs.

 

[Caman96]

I wonder how many of the internal parts are still available? The housing is still available. GM 26002519

BLAZER 4WD - Steering gear asm > Chevrolet EPC Online > Nemiga.com

Parts catalogs. Spare parts catalog Chevrolet EPC Online. Chevrolet BLAZER 4WD. Front axle-front suspension-steering. Steering gear asm.

nemigaparts.com

 

[Schurkey]

The entire front end of my '89 is new, and it's still significantly looser than a modern vehicle, but that's why link style steering went away and everyone went to rack and pinion. It will never be as tight as a rack.

There are fewer "wear points" for a rack 'n' pinion system. That alone is an advantage.

HOWEVER

The traditional steering-gear-plus-parallelogram-linkage system works surprisingly well when GM hasn't sabotaged steering precision by using under-engineered rag joints, sloppy control arm bushings, and pathetically-geared steering gearboxes.

Put proper-ratio gears and a stiffer torsion bar in a properly-rebuilt box, upgrade the control arm bushings, fix the rag-joint, and replace worn steering/suspension joints based on precision instead of "safety", and the two systems are remarkably similar in terms of steering agility.

Most suspension joints have OEM replacement wear specs based on the joint being "safe", that is, it's not going to separate if it's worn to a certain degree of looseness. But steering precision is lost when there's any amount of looseness. For example, idler arms may be allowed .080 play at 25 lbs force, before recommended replacement.

 

[Turtles]

So far I'm looking at approx $700-$900 worth of parts, not including the steering box which I have yet to decide on. I'm not entirely sure if I should go ahead upgrade the bearings, or replace with ac delco gold inner and outer bearings. I'll have to check the control arm bushings, I was thinking of poly bushings but I remember keeping a can of wd40 to stop the squeaks, though at 168k they should be ok.

What my plans are

Mevotech TTX inner / out tie rods (TXES2836RL outer / TXES2837RL inner) and upper and lower balljoints (TXMS50568 lower / TXMS50574 upper) on rock auto for $294.32
Proforged idler arm and pitman arm (102-10026 idler / 103-10008 pitman) on summit racing for $104.58
SuperSteer SS175 idler arm support on their website for $175
Cunningham Machine tie rod sleeves and upper half steering shaft on Cunningham machines directly for $175

I'll probably go with Mevotech sway bar end links and swap bar bushings just because they are cheap and I'm already replacing stuff. Is there anything else I should look for besides a gear box, power steering cooler? I am running what I believe are stock sized tires with stock wheels.

 

[Hipster]

really like this post

There are fewer "wear points" for a rack 'n' pinion system. That alone is an advantage.

HOWEVER

The traditional steering-gear-plus-parallelogram-linkage system works surprisingly well when GM hasn't sabotaged steering precision by using under-engineered rag joints, sloppy control arm bushings, and pathetically-geared steering gearboxes.

Put proper-ratio gears and a stiffer torsion bar in a properly-rebuilt box, upgrade the control arm bushings, fix the rag-joint, and replace worn steering/suspension joints based on precision instead of "safety", and the two systems are remarkably similar in terms of steering agility.

Most suspension joints have OEM replacement wear specs based on the joint being "safe", that is, it's not going to separate if it's worn to a certain degree of looseness. But steering precision is lost when there's any amount of looseness. For example, idler arms may be allowed .080 play at 25 lbs force, before recommended replacement.

only thing I can really say is sometimes ball sockets "stick" in the worn position. If your're not under there prying on stuff with a prybar or bumping it with a hammer it's easy to overlook and/or miss stuff.

 

[Erik the Awful]

What's your rough estimate on what you spent on your front end rebuild?

I'm not sure who you're asking, but it took me two lazy Saturdays to rebuild everything but the gearbox. The gearbox itself was a challenge. I rebuilt my own and blew out the seal repeatedly by not bleeding it properly. I broke down and bought a RedHead and then realized how complicated the bleeding instructions were. What do I know? I've been a rack-and-pinion guy. Once you've pulled and restabbed the gearbox ten times you get a zipper on it. I can swap one out in about fifteen minutes.

It seemed every single remain box they installed left the wheel off center, that's after they got the truck aligned, granted they never gave my the 4 alignment spec sheet.

Yeah, that sounds more like a technician problem, not a parts problem. Did you get a four-wheel alignment or just a toe-n-go? Aligning the front wheels without taking into account the back wheels is an exercise in futility. Also, are you sure the frame is straight and the rear axle is mounted straight? A good four-wheel alignment will tell you that.

Most suspension joints have OEM replacement wear specs based on the joint being "safe", that is, it's not going to separate if it's worn to a certain degree of looseness. But steering precision is lost when there's any amount of looseness. For example, idler arms may be allowed .080 play at 25 lbs force, before recommended replacement.

I re-learned this a couple weeks ago. For a while now my Mustang's front suspension has been getting significant toe change while driving down the road - like 1/4" or more. I'd rebuilt the front end on it, but I didn't replace the inner tie rod ends. I finally replaced them, and the old link doesn't have any slop that you can feel, but you can flop it around by shaking it. The good one on the other side remains pointed in one direction when you shake it. That little bit of looseness translated to 1/4" of toe change.

 

[Turtles]

Erik the Awful I'm not entirely sure what they did, I let them know I wanted my 97 to drive STRAIGHT and properly, I wanted higher quality parts, I found out while my truck was being worked on, that shop doesn't do alignments, so they drive it to one of 3 nearby shops that do alignments. Although it's been awhile, my rear end was straight, and it seemed my axle shafts were ok (to be honest I mostly just go by the wear in the axle seal or vibration in the rear). I'd probably not take any of my my trucks or future truck there for either transmission work or front end work.

Shops around my area are a hit and miss sometimes, especially if you request certain parts. That's why I'm doing the 96 c3500 with my parts.

I've got 3 gmt400 (95, 96, 97) and a little 98 s10, all of which could use a front end refresh with the slight exception of the recently gone through 97 c2500.

 

[Schurkey]

I'm not entirely sure if I should go ahead upgrade the bearings, or replace with ac delco gold inner and outer bearings.

Why replace the bearings if they aren't showing signs of wear?

My expectation is that they're fine...once you clean and repack 'em with proper wheel-bearing grease. There's about a thousand choices for wheel bearing grease, and pretty-much any one of them would be fine. NLGI #2 (common as dirt) with a rating of "GC" (also common as dirt). Most automotive greases will be NLGI #2, and dual-rated for chassis grease and wheel bearing grease: LB/GC.

I'll have to check the control arm bushings, I was thinking of poly bushings but I remember keeping a can of wd40 to stop the squeaks, though at 168k they should be ok.

Poly bushings need GREASE, not "WD40". No wonder you had trouble with them squeaking. The grease supplied with them is the stickiest grease I've ever seen. Regular automotive chassis grease is probably not acceptable, either.

I'd expect the upper bushings are totally wiped at that mileage and age. Lower bushings may/may not be usable. The problem with Poly bushings on GMT400s is that they include the steel inner sleeve for the lower bushings, but not for the upper bushings. I had to fabricate my own steel sleeves for the upper bushings because the originals were TOTALLY shot.

Photo 1. The "fat" steel sleeve is what both of them looked like before I polished-off all the rust. The "skinny" steel sleeve is what was left after loose rust was removed. I spent hours making the new sleeves, because I don't have a lathe. Had to do it all "by hand".

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Photo 2. The expansion in diameter of the inner sleeve due to rust causes stress to the rubber, leading to the demise of the control arm bushings.

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An aftermarket upper control arm pair avoids the bushing and ball-joint issue. No idea if they're available for 2WD, but they are for 4WD including the 8-lug version.

I'll probably go with Mevotech swap bar end links and swap bar bushings just because they are cheap and I'm already replacing stuff.

Swap bar? Do you mean "sway bar"?

Is there anything else I should look for besides a gear box, power steering cooler? I am running what I believe are stock sized tires with stock wheels.

SOME GMT400s have a horizontal "shock absorber" on the steering linkage. If yours does, make sure it's in good condition. If not, consider installing one if you're on rough roads or off-road.