Alignment issues

[abrasumente]

Folks, I’ve ran into a problem I cannot seem to get solved.


I’ve got a 95 suburban k1500 rolling on 275/60/20 Nitto Ridge Grapplers on a new set of 20x10 Ion wheels. I have personally replaced every single steering and suspension component on the truck with Moog problem solvers (for the moving and grease-able parts) energy suspension for the bushings, KYB Excel-G shocks, new CV axles, Timken wheel bearings, and a remain steering box. Also, the knockouts were already gone. The only thing I did NOT replace was the center link, as it didn’t look like the holes were boogered. Even the rag joint’s been done with the two-piece replacement RockAuto sells. When I got this truck, it was a grandpa mobile and probably shouldn’t have been driven- the front driver side wheel practically hopped when driven (for some reason the driver side torsion bar was maxed out, it has no sag in it from what I can tell, go figure), the ball joints were more like those hand bells you see in old movies, and one of the faux-chrome wheels had a locking lug nut that took an oxy-ace heat wrench to remove. Safe to say the PO beat the piss out of it but it’s rust free, the body is in great shape, and I got it on trade so I wasn’t too upset.

Here’s the issue. I have taken the truck to two different shops to get it aligned and have had turd results from both. The first shop got it fairly close, but the steering wheel was still off by 5 degrees or so, and after talking with some buddies I decided to take it to another shop for a second opinion. Well, they not only volunteered themselves to complete the work instead of asking, but also claimed the other shop put the pitman arm on upside down (I put it on, and installed it the same way the old one came off, and I’m not really sure how it could be upside down???), that they left a bunch of bolts loose (I torque EVERYTHING back to spec and recheck in a week’s time, I wouldn’t work on suspension/steering for the longest for fear of doing this and something coming loose while driving, so I take my time doing this work) THEN said the steering box must be for another MY as they couldn’t get everything within spec with my steering wheel straight. I’m lit at this point and get back up there to the tune of a $270 bill, a steering wheel that’s off 90 degrees, and a promise that “Once you get the right steering box installed we’ll align it for free!” Yeah, I don’t think so.

Get the truck back to my house, and check underneath. They’ve got the passenger side tie rods BURIED and the driver side with maybe five threads inside the adjusting sleeve. I don’t know much about alignment, but that doesn’t seem right to me. I am sure I didn’t move the steering box when I installed it. I guess it could be off from wherever it got reman’d, but I would not know how to check for that.

I want to make sure everything I’ve done is correct before I take it yet somewhere else to attempt an alignment on this thing (there’s a reputable 4wd shop about an hour’s drive from me that does alignments, so that’ll be my next and hopefully last stop). Is there something inherent to IFS setups that sends an alignment shop for a whoop-de-doo over a solid axle truck? Do I just have bad luck? All suggestions appreciated!

 

[Hipster]

I think you just ended up somewhere where they didn't know what they were doing.

On the flip side I've had issues working at dealership bodyshops and sending alignments over to the mechanics side, especially when dealing with trucks, is that most late model cars the only adjustment you can make without getting into shimming is toe. So you run into these guys that just don't have a lot of experience with the trucks range of movements or what movement corrects said condition. They get paid full rate to set the toe on a car and piss and moan when they have to go through all the motions on a truck. Before I get flamed, I'm not condemning alignment guys. There are some good ones out there. Just have to find that guy.


it's not rack and pinion so 5 degrees is not a whole lot on the wheel with a steering box. It's pretty difficult to get them perfect and it could be the compensation needed for the crown in the road your driving on at the time. Your kinda splitting hairs there.

 

[454cid]

When I replaced my rag joint with a new one from Lares it threw the steering wheel off. I don't think that can be compensated for with an alignment.

I too think you ended up someplace that had no clue.

 

[abrasumente]

ededI think you just ended up somewhere where they didn't know what they were doing.

On the flip side I've had issues working at dealership bodyshops and sending alignments over to the mechanics side, especially when dealing with trucks, is that most late model cars the only adjustment you can make without getting into shimming is toe. So you run into these guys that just don't have a lot of experience with the trucks range of movements or what movement corrects said condition. They get paid full rate to set the toe on a car and piss and moan when they have to go through all the motions on a truck. Before I get flamed, I'm not condemning alignment guys. There are some good ones out there. Just have to find that guy.


it's not rack and pinion so 5 degrees is not a whole lot on the wheel with a steering box. It's pretty difficult to get them perfect and it could be the compensation needed for the crown in the road your driving on at the time. Your kinda splitting hairs there.

That’s a fair assessment, and being this is the first vehicle I’ve owned that didn’t have rack and pinion steering (that I’ve actually cared to fix up) it’s very likely I was expecting too much. I seem to remember there was another reason I wanted a second look (it might have been drifting or pulling a little) but this all went down a couple months ago so I don’t quite remember the details.

For what it’s worth the truck tracks fairly straight now and doesn’t drift or pull and it is LIGHT YEARS beyond the ride quality it had when I got it, it’s just the steering wheel being 90* off and paying that amount of money for things I’m pretty sure weren’t actually an issue. I had one other interaction with this shop almost ten years ago when I got charged a grand to replace a bearing and hub assembly (as in one, not both) on an 06 Grand Prix GXP I used to own. Situations like that are what motivated me to start doing my own wrenching

 

[PlayingWithTBI]

When you get it back to 5* just pull the steering wheel and put it back on -5*

 

[abrasumente]

When you get it back to 5* just pull the steering wheel and put it back on -5*

I thought our columns were keyed, so the steering wheel only goes on one way?

 

[PlayingWithTBI]

My 88 is spline mount, IIRC

 

[454cid]

I thought our columns were keyed, so the steering wheel only goes on one way?

The lower steering shaft is keyed, but the moment you got into the rag joint that was altered. I have not been into the wheel.

 

[PlayingWithTBI]

Here's what your upper shaft should look like if it's a tilt wheel - note the spline.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Ok, I did front end work exclusively for 10 years, 35 years as a professional mechanic. If it were me, I would pull the pitman arm back off and check the position. If I read you post right the wheel was off a little after the first alignment and a lot after the second and they tried to center it with the tie rods and ran out of room. It sounds to me like when they moved your pitman arm they put it on wrong. It can go on in four positions.

Make sure your center link is level side to side. I'm talking about an obvious angle not a minute bit. If they put the arm back on upside down (not sure it's possible) then there would be a big angle to the center link. Take the pitman arm off the box. Get the linkage down enough the arm won't catch on the spines. Mark the shaft so you can see if the position changes. Gently turn the steering all the way to one side. Don't bounce the steering off the box stop harshly, do it gently and let it stop when it stops. Now turn the steering wheel back the other direction counting the rotations. again, don't man handle it just be gentle (not delicate just gentle ). Once you have the turns counted divide by two and turn the steering wheel back that many turns. Your box should be centered or close enough for right now. Check your mark on the pitman shaft and see if it's in a different position. if so you'll have to reassemble and have it aligned again.

The steering off the 5 degree's was an easy fix they would have likely taken care of in just a couple of minutes if you would have asked. I've done 1,000s of alignments and it happens, I just catch them before I release the vehicle to the customer (most times). The alignment can be set to spec and still have the wheel off. You just have one side toed in and the other toed out with total tow being correct. They center when driving and cause the wheel to be off set.

If the pitman shaft ends up in the same spot then there is another issue. You can screw up the rag joint shaft alignment but you would have to make a deliberate effort. Most times this type of issue is a steering gear that been in a wreck and twisted the shaft. No way to give good advise on the internet on this from me, I'd have to see it.

You cannot take the steering wheel off to center it, it is master splined. The correct way to center the wheel is through the tie rods. move one in, one out.It has to be done with care if you move one more than the other you'll jack up the total toe.

I hope that helps in some way.