96 GMC K2500 Suburban Restoration (with a couple of mods)

[OutlawDrifter]

Greetings OD, from the above I can tell that we were raised by similar parents. :0)

My first (and last) new car was an '84 Mustang GT. 5.0/5-speed/factory Holley 4v, posi,
quadra-shock, etc.) Have wonderful memories of that car, was finally able to remove
the giant chip on my shoulder about never owning a new car. However, in 3 short car
payments (and eating a lot of mac & cheese) I was cured of the need to own a new car.
Problem was, I still had 45 more payments in my little payment book.
(Remember those? I didn't think so. :0)

So I revised my car ownership mission statement. No longer did I want to own a new
car. It became "I prefer to drive an interesting car in new condition." And FWIW, I sold my
new car in order to buy my first house.

****

Currently here in NY, the state sales tax is 8%. So let's say that you manage to find a new truck
that can do the work you want for only $50K. (Google link) This means that before you
pay the first $ on your note (principal or interest) you first have to pay the state exactly
$4,000 in sales tax. (!)

So, when I tell people that even after buying my '99 C2500 for $3000 & making it roadworthy,**
I am still driving on just the NY state sales tax on an equivalent no frills '23 2500HD model.

Driving old is not for everyone...but it's perfect for me. And quality time spent in front of
the workbench/blast cabinet/flowbench is time that keeps my mind gonkulating and my person
from being talked into more sketchy pursuits. :0)



I was taught the 'cents per mile' thing at the airbase by my mentors. There are a lot of
car enthusiasts amongst airplane wrenchers, but in VT the 'get to drive' cars/trucks were
reserved for the sunny daze, while the 'got to drive' DD took all the adverse weather/salt/etc.
Anyway, the parking lots were full of used old soldier Civics, Tercels, Escorts, and Cavaliers. Why?

All those guys were playing to join the 10¢ per mile club. Buy a used car with a mechanical
mid-life crisis for $2000, put $2000 worth of brakes/shocks/tires/clutch/wiper blades/whatever
into it...and once you drove the thing for 40,000 miles, you were in! My personal best was
3¢/per mile. ($1500 well-used '89 Civic hatchback w/electrical issues, $1500 total parts over
90K miles...and since I had it dialed in thanks to treasure yard upgrades I actually enjoyed the
'gotta drive' miles -- win win! :0)

So when people ask me that if I'm such a car freak why don't I own the new Ferrari V12 SUV
as my DD, I simply reply that even if I spent $0 on maintenance, I'd have to drive it for over
4 million miles before I could get it into the 10¢/mile game. So, it's off the table. And I'm
going to have to somehow figure out how to find my 528 ft/lbs of torque somewhere in
my own back yard. :0)

Sincerely,

Frugal Gump


**Sales tax, ($240) 4 new Bilsteins ($306) all new rear brakes/p-brake cables (~$200-250?) & misc plugs/fluids/etc ($150)

We figure the cents/mile a little differently

I add in fuel/taxes/tags/insurance/maintenance/etc and don't worry about the initial tip in payment. Mine is more of a rolling number month-to-month versus the lifetime ownership. I don't generally keep stuff that long, and normally I roll it for far more than I have in it(I keep spreadsheets). Since 2020 I haven't had much opportunity to pick stuff up on the cheap with used prices going nuts.



P.S. I have never bought or owned a brand new car/pickup/suv...ever (equipment and semi purchases not included)

P.P.S OP sorry for the thread hi-jack!

 

[Road Trip]

We figure the cents/mile a little differently

I add in fuel/taxes/tags/insurance/maintenance/etc and don't worry about the initial tip in payment. Mine is more of a rolling number month-to-month versus the lifetime ownership. I don't generally keep stuff that long, and normally I roll it for far more than I have in it(I keep spreadsheets). Since 2020 I haven't had much opportunity to pick stuff up on the cheap with used prices going nuts.

OD, when discussing driving old with normal people I keep it simple as possible. Total big ticket outlay
divided by 10¢/mile = goal mileage. (I used to get a lot of questions about putting money into a 20+
year old car w/no resale value? I would answer that if I do it right, I am the final driver of the car, so
resale value means nothing.) And since I'm a dad, even though I'm driving a shell that's old enough to
legally drink, I owe it to my offspring that the tires are 2021, the suspension is 2022, the brakes are 2023, etc.
That's how they do it with airplanes, and now I'm hanging out with folks who do the same thing with
GMT400 vehicles. :0)

At the same time I understand *completely* where you are coming from. The difference in
car insurance required for a new car under a loan (comprehensive + collision) vs straight liability on
a DD bought w/cash is *non-trivial* in this state...even though I have a clean record.

And the price of fuel is why my DD is always a relative fuel sipper. (Freeing up money to drive the chore
truck when I need to do the bigger hauling.)

Great discussion! If you ask most people how much it costs them to drive per mile, 95+% couldn't tell
you. Me? If I get this right, I only have to work 20hrs/wk + long-awaited projects in semi-retirement.
If I get it wrong, back to 40+ hrs/week...and no free time to hang out in here. :0)

Cheers --

PS: @South VA , apologies for the tangent...but it feels like we all share a common perspective on all this?

 

[South VA]

It’s all good; sorry I haven’t been able to join in. Carry on.

 

[South VA]

More about that scan tool…

Since I’ve been using the XTool D8 I’ve been looking at others to see if there’s a better one out there in the same general price range. The D8 user interface is a bit clunky, I suppose because it uses an older version of the Android OS. And as some reviewers have noted, it’s almost as if different modules for the same vehicle were written by different programmers. Nonetheless, it seems to do the basic job, and has some TPMS functionality for the newer vehicles in the fleet.

Before I learned that the ‘96 doesn’t have a fuel pressure sensor that a scan tool can access, I pointed out to XTool’s tech support that fuel pressure on the ‘96 is not supported, contrary to their assertion that it was. They contacted their engineers and confirmed that it would not perform that function. They apologized and offered me an additional year of free updates, for a total of four years. However, since I don’t see myself buying a 2028 anything, the yearly updates aren’t important to me. My GF’s 2021 CRV is already covered, and I doubt that she’ll buy another new car. I’ll cross that bridge if and when we come to it.

I looked at Topdon’s scan tools, which generally had pretty good reviews, and ordered an ArtiDiag900 Lite, which was over $100 cheaper, to compare with the D8. I tried it on the Subdivision and my 2008 HHR SS. The functions are similar to the D8 for the Sub, but less so with the HHR. There are some nice features on the Topdon: the UI is better than the D8’s, as it uses a more current version of the Android OS. It is also bluetooth, rather than wired. The case is nice, and has a neat magnetic recess on the back for storing the BT OBD2 sensor. Unfortunately the kickstand on the back doesn’t allow the tool to hang on top of the steering wheel, which means it has to be held in one hand while operating it with the other. In contrast, the D8 sits nicely on top of the steering wheel, and the OBD2 connector is more than long enough to allow it to be placed there or on the center console.

If I had to choose now, I’d probably stick with the D8. However, I’m not entirely satisfied with it so I’m still looking at options. One name that keeps coming up is Autel. They tend to be a bit more expensive, but seem worth a look. So as I did with the D8 and the Topdon, I emailed the seller the VINs for the Subdivision and the HHR, to find out what level of support their MK808BT Pro scan tool provides. Depending on what they say, I’ll probably order one and compare it with the D8, and send the Topdon back.

At the price point I’m considering (~$500) I realize that I won’t get all of the features of an OEM scan tool. But I think I’m in the right neighborhood for my DIY needs. When it’s all said and done, the D8, warts and all, may be the choice.
We’ll see.

In the meantime, I still haven’t made it up to the transmission shop to meet the owner and eyeball the operation. Perhaps today or tomorrow.

I also have to install the new Delco TPS, now that I have it in hand.

Of course it has been raining, which the crops definitely needed, but makes working under the hood challenging.

It occurred to me that I have one of those 10’ x 10’ pop up canopies that I could set up over the front end. Don’t know why I didn’t think of it before, as it would offer some shade on sunny days as well. Live and learn.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

I have an Autel MaxiPro MP808BT PRO. So far it has done everything I need it to, I think all of these Chinese setups are clunky, the more you use it the easier it gets.

 

[South VA]

Replaced the long-suffering TPS with the Delco unit yesterday, which turned out to be a bit more involved than I expected, and cleared the code. It didn’t come back after a restart and 10 minutes of idling, so that may be that. We’ll see. The two transmission codes, on the other hand, persist even after being cleared.

I have an Autel MaxiPro MP808BT PRO. So far it has done everything I need it to, I think all of these Chinese setups are clunky, the more you use it the easier it gets.

That’s a nice scan tool you have there, but out of my price range. Understandable, as you have a shop where you do work on a variety of vehicles, for pay. I am a mere DIYer, albeit with a small fleet.

I heard back from Autel, and found out that the model I’m looking at doesn’t do TPMS. Moreover, the models that do can only program Autel brand TPMS. Since three of the vehicles here on the farm have TPMS, it’s nice to have that capability.

After further consideration I decided just to keep the XTool D8. It seems to do everything I need it to, and I don’t know that the Autel (or any other scan tool in this price range) would be an appreciably better choice for my DIY needs.

As you suggest, I’m getting more comfortable with the user interface, and from what I can tell it indicates that things are running pretty well, engine-wise.

Another factor in my decision to keep it is that XTool’s customer service has been prompt, and they actually seem to understand my questions well. While I understand that ESL is a reality for dealing with Chinese companies, XTool’s grasp of English appears to be just a notch above the other two companies I queried.

And, as I mentioned earlier, XTool offered to extend the free annual updates for another year. I asked them if they’d consider instead providing me with a digital inspection camera (XV100). They agreed, and will be sending it out shortly. I’m thinking it will come in handy.

You must be registered for see images attach

Looking back over the past months in pursuit of correcting the charging system and transmission woes, I’ve replaced the ignition switch, two battery ground cables, the headlight switch, the transfer case switch, and the most recently the TPS. The alternator’s been replaced, as well as the plugs, cap, rotor, and plug wires.

Also in the process the air conditioner has been deratified, and now works well enough. Having A/C that actually moves air and doesn’t reek of eau d’corpse is a fine thing.

Other than rebuilding the transmission, I’m not sure what else can be done to ensure the Subdivision’s readiness for towing. It may well be that everything that needed to be done has been done. Or not. We’ll see.

But, perhaps naively so, I’m cautiously optimistic (sound familiar?) that once the rebuild’s done, the Subdivision will be ready to do its main job - to tow the camper.

Nonetheless, I still feel some anxiety around this upcoming trip. It’s in the mountains and our longest to date. I’m confident that if it’s going to fail, it will do so on this trip.

Guess I’ll go through the list of potential weak points yet again, to see if I missed anything. If anyone has any further suggestions, I’m open.

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

Replaced the long-suffering TPS with the Delco unit yesterday, which turned out to be a bit more involved than I expected, and cleared the code. It didn’t come back after a restart and 10 minutes of idling, so that may be that. We’ll see. The two transmission codes, on the other hand, persist even after being cleared.



That’s a nice scan tool you have there, but out of my price range. Understandable, as you have a shop where you do work on a variety of vehicles, for pay. I am a mere DIYer, albeit with a small fleet.

I heard back from Autel, and found out that the model I’m looking at doesn’t do TPMS. Moreover, the models that do can only program Autel brand TPMS. Since three of the vehicles here on the farm have TPMS, it’s nice to have that capability.

After further consideration I decided just to keep the XTool D8. It seems to do everything I need it to, and I don’t know that the Autel (or any other scan tool in this price range) would be an appreciably better choice for my DIY needs.

As you suggest, I’m getting more comfortable with the user interface, and from what I can tell it indicates that things are running pretty well, engine-wise.

Another factor in my decision to keep it is that XTool’s customer service has been prompt, and they actually seem to understand my questions well. While I understand that ESL is a reality for dealing with Chinese companies, XTool’s grasp of English appears to be just a notch above the other two companies I queried.

And, as I mentioned earlier, XTool offered to extend the free annual updates for another year. I asked them if they’d consider instead providing me with a digital inspection camera (XV100). They agreed, and will be sending it out shortly. I’m thinking it will come in handy.

You must be registered for see images attach

Looking back over the past months in pursuit of correcting the charging system and transmission woes, I’ve replaced the ignition switch, two battery ground cables, the headlight switch, the transfer case switch, and the most recently the TPS. The alternator’s been replaced, as well as the plugs, cap, rotor, and plug wires.

Also in the process the air conditioner has been deratified, and now works well enough. Having A/C that actually moves air and doesn’t reek of eau d’corpse is a fine thing.

Other than rebuilding the transmission, I’m not sure what else can be done to ensure the Subdivision’s readiness for towing. It may well be that everything that needed to be done has been done. Or not. We’ll see.

But, perhaps naively so, I’m cautiously optimistic (sound familiar?) that once the rebuild’s done, the Subdivision will be ready to do its main job - to tow the camper.

Nonetheless, I still feel some anxiety around this upcoming trip. It’s in the mountains and our longest to date. I’m confident that if it’s going to fail, it will do so on this trip.

Guess I’ll go through the list of potential weak points yet again, to see if I missed anything. If anyone has any further suggestions, I’m open.

It's been my experience with my Vortec trucks that the throttle position sensor and the idle air control valve seems to wear out around the same time. I replaced the TPS on the Burb, then had to replace the IACV in the next week. Replaced the IACV on the crew cab and then the TPS. On both trucks I was replacing the original parts. I've also heard, from a retired mechanic cousin, that these parts frequently fail together or at close to the same time.

 

[South VA]

It's been my experience with my Vortec trucks that the throttle position sensor and the idle air control valve seems to wear out around the same time. I replaced the TPS on the Burb, then had to replace the IACV in the next week. Replaced the IACV on the crew cab and then the TPS. On both trucks I was replacing the original parts. I've also heard, from a retired mechanic cousin, that these parts frequently fail together or at close to the same time.

Sounds like a reasonable thing to do, thank you. That’s exactly the type of feedback I was looking for.

Is there a particular brand that you’d recommend? Rockauto doesn’t list a Delco part, but does list Standard Motor Products, Walker (including a “full service kit”), WVE, United Motor Products, and Delphi in their Daily Driver category.

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

Sounds like a reasonable thing to do, thank you. That’s exactly the type of feedback I was looking for.

Is there a particular brand that you’d recommend? Rockauto doesn’t list a Delco part, but does list Standard Motor Products, Walker (including a “full service kit”), WVE, United Motor Products, and Delphi in their Daily Driver category.

I used the Standard Ignition/Motor Products ones. These were available at my local O'Reilly's parts store, and I got them at a reasonable price with the commercial account discount. They also have a longer warranty than the house brand ones.
When I got the crew cab last year, it had been sitting a lot and the fuel system was not up to top performance because of that. On a vehicle with 27 years on it, a lot of things needed replacement. Not just from mileage (only 123K on it when we got it) but just from age. The truck would run strong with you foot in the throttle, but would stumble at idle. Eventually got it sorted out with a few tanks treated with Berrymans B12 Chemtool, a new fuel filter, cap/rotor/plugs, and the aforementioned sensors. I've also heard and read from several members here, that the oxygen sensors can be out of spec enough to cause idle or other problems, but not "bad" enough to throw codes. When I first got this truck, it threw O2 sensor codes a few times,but the repairs and fuel system cleaning have kept them from returning.

 

[South VA]

The Berrymans sounds like a good idea. That, and a new fuel filter, although the old one looks fairly new.

I ordered the Standard Motor Products IACV and should have it this week.