350 swap questions

[Jerryred94silvy]

Clever? From the guy who can't properly pronounce the word "Edelbrock"?

I noticed that too lol

 

[kennythewelder]

So far making the gauges and transmission function without all the TBI and sensor junk are the biggest visible challenges so far. I figured I could just pull the sensors for coolant temp and oil pressure off the old v6 and swap them over, but the holes that those sensors would go in the v8 are not the same size as they are in the v6. I'll look into the tuning route some more, I was really hoping I could use some of the v6 parts to make the engine talk to the gauges...I guess we'll see how that turns out though. And thanks for that video! Would I need that little black shift box that he had? Or would the tps just run through the existing computer?

Sorry for the barrage of questions(and potentially repeated questions). I'm learning all of this stuff as I go, and that's why I came to this forum

Everyone I have ever talked to about a card swap, says you need the trans controller box. But I know that the ECM can be tuned to what ever you want if someone knows what they are doing. So IDK why things could not just be tuned out that is no longer needed. People do it all of the time to remove things like rear 02 sensors, EGR valves ECT. Why not do away with all the other stuff that runs everything except what is needed for the trans. Now price of that tune may be the issue, IDK.

 

[Jerryred94silvy]

Yeah price will be playing a rather large factor in this situation. But where there is a will there is a way.

Is there a particular fuel pressure regulator that y'all would recommend for using the in tank pump with a carburetor? Holley has one for $35+/- at autozone that seems like it would work just fine. This setup won't see any crazy power or racing applications, it's just a daily hot rod of sorts.

 

[kennythewelder]

You can not use the Vortec fuel pump. It puts out way to much pressure. Over 60 PSI. Even the TBI fuel pump still puts out to much pressure. You will need a fuel pump for a carb engine. 4 to 6 PSI give or take. Why not run a mechanical fuel pump? That is what carb engines like. Your block is an older 350, so you have a place for a mechanical fuel pump on the side of the block. Yes, you would have to remove the electric fuel pump in the tank, but you will need to do that anyway. You will need to extend the pick up tube about the same distance as the pump you remove, but thats about all you will need to do after you remove the electric duel pump from the tank. A small piece of rubber fuel hose 3/8, and a worm clamp should do the trick.

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[L31MaxExpress]

You can not use the Vortec fuel pump. It puts out way to much pressure. Over 60 PSI. Even the TBI fuel pump still puts out to much pressure. You will need a fuel pump for a carb engine. 4 to 6 PSI give or take. Why not run a mechanical fuel pump? That is what carb engines like. Your block is an older 350, so you have a place for a mechanical fuel pump on the side of the block. Yes, you would have to remove the electric fuel pump in the tank, but you will need to do that anyway. You will need to extend the pick up tube about the same distance as the pump you remove, but thats about all you will need to do after you remove the electric duel pump from the tank. A small piece of rubber fuel hose 3/8, and a worm clamp should do the trick.

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You absolutely can use the Vortec pump. Its called a bypass style fuel pressure regulator. Having an electric pump in the tank and a bypass regulator nearly completely eliminates the possibility of vapor lock on a hot day. I had a carb G-van years ago that would always try to vapor lock on hot days. I put a TPI pump in a TBI tank, used the TBI fuel lines and a bypass regulator. Never had a fuel starvation issue again. It was also a nice thing to have when I later TBI then TPI swapped the 350. A stock Vortec pump can feed a carb engine making over 500 hp with ease.

 

[kennythewelder]

You absolutely can use the Vortec pump. Its called a bypass style fuel pressure regulator. Having an electric pump in the tank and a bypass regulator nearly completely eliminates the possibility of vapor lock on a hot day. I had a carb G-van years ago that would always try to vapor lock on hot days. I put a TPI pump in a TBI tank, used the TBI fuel lines and a bypass regulator. Never had a fuel starvation issue again. It was also a nice thing to have when I later TBI then TPI swapped the 350. A stock Vortec pump can feed a carb engine making over 500 hp with ease.

OK then, let me rephrase this then. Just because you can doesnt mean you should. Why would you want to make a fuel pump work at one 10th the pressure it was designed to. The 350 He has is an old 2 piece rear main seal block, so it has the boss for a mechanical fuel pump, and that is what a carb was designed to run on, and will deliver the correct fuel pressure with out doing mods to get the fuel pump to the correct pressure to be gain with.

 

[L31MaxExpress]

OK then, let me rephrase this then. Just because you can doesnt mean you should. Why would you want to make a fuel pump work at one 10th the pressure it was designed to. The 350 He has is an old 2 piece rear main seal block, so it has the boss for a mechanical fuel pump, and that is what a carb was designed to run on, and will deliver the correct fuel pressure with out doing mods to get the fuel pump to the correct pressure to be gain with.

Because it is already in the tank to start with. Not to mention if the pump is only running at 5 psi the pump will last 3x as long compared to running at 60 psi. Less amperage draw and less wear on the brushes. I just don't see a reason to convert to an inferior pump. It is easier to push fuel than it is to pull it. The pump itself has no bearing on pressure, resistance to flow does. The freer the flow the easier the pump works.

That being said I would swap those crappy crack prone smog heads out for some cheap aluminum vortecs, swap in a small cam, find a Vortec 305/350 intake and 350 PCM. Grab the aluminum Holley L31 timing cover and a 350 Vortec balancer and convert the old 350 to a Vortec 350. Bringing that old wheezy 350 that has less power than a Vortec 4.3 up around 300 hp or more. A Vortec PCM will not operate without a crank sensor input.

 

[kennythewelder]

Because it is already in the tank to start with. Not to mention if the pump is only running at 5 psi the pump will last 3x as long compared to running at 60 psi. Less amperage draw and less wear on the brushes. I just don't see a reason to convert to an inferior pump. It is easier to push fuel than it is to pull it. The pump itself has no bearing on pressure, resistance to flow does. The freer the flow the easier the pump works.

That being said I would swap those crappy crack prone smog heads out for some cheap aluminum vortecs, swap in a small cam, find a Vortec 305/350 intake and 350 PCM. Grab the aluminum Holley L31 timing cover and a 350 Vortec balancer and convert the old 350 to a Vortec 350. Bringing that old wheezy 350 that has less power than a Vortec 4.3 up around 300 hp or more. A Vortec PCM will not operate without a crank sensor input.

You dont think I know this all ready? Despite what you think, I am not a dumb ass. I just would not jerry rig a pump just because I can or just because I am yo lazy to drop the tank, and install a fuel pump that is correct for the application. We all have our own opinions. You can put a 4 cylinder Toyota engine in your truck too, but That doesnt mean you should. What the OP asked was about adding a fuel pressure regulator to the fuel system that will work with the Vortec fuel pump. Why dont you reply to this, instead of calling out members and starting an argument with them. Dont think I forgot about you arguing with me about headers, and even after I posted proof to back up what I was saying, you still could not face the fact that you were wrong. Answer the OPs question!!!!

 

[Supercharged111]

You dont think I know this all ready? Despite what you think, I am not a dumb ass. I just would not jerry rig a pump just because I can or just because I am yo lazy to drop the tank, and install a fuel pump that is correct for the application. We all have our own opinions. You can put a 4 cylinder Toyota engine in your truck too, but That doesnt mean you should. What the OP asked was about adding a fuel pressure regulator to the fuel system that will work with the Vortec fuel pump. Why dont you reply to this, instead of calling out members and starting an argument with them. Dont think I forgot about you arguing with me about headers, and even after I posted proof to back up what I was saying, you still could not face the fact that you were wrong. Answer the OPs question!!!!

I ran my Crown Vic for a few years with an in tank pump meant to run at 43psi at 5.5 carb'd psi with zero issues. What Fast is saying is not heresay, it really does work. Just bypass the unneeded fuel back to the tank. Done and done.

 

[L31MaxExpress]

You dont think I know this all ready? Despite what you think, I am not a dumb ass. I just would not jerry rig a pump just because I can or just because I am yo lazy to drop the tank, and install a fuel pump that is correct for the application. We all have our own opinions. You can put a 4 cylinder Toyota engine in your truck too, but That doesnt mean you should. What the OP asked was about adding a fuel pressure regulator to the fuel system that will work with the Vortec fuel pump. Why dont you reply to this, instead of calling out members and starting an argument with them. Dont think I forgot about you arguing with me about headers, and even after I posted proof to back up what I was saying, you still could not face the fact that you were wrong. Answer the OPs question!!!!

I did not post to call you out. Never said you were a dumbass either. It was a response to the OP that happened to be in response to how I would do it compared to your way. The correct regulator will have no issue regulating the pressure and the pump will work just fine. It is not cobbling the system together by any means. It is a highly functional setup. I ran my 83 G20 van with a TBI tank and lines with a TPI pump (because I had a new one laying around) for over 2 years and about 50k miles. Trying to feed a 400+ hp engine with a stock type mechanical pump resulted in fuel starvation in hot weather in my experience. The mechanical pump just could not pull fuel from the back of a full size van effectively under heavy acceleration or running uphill.

Not exactly sure what you are talking about with the headers comment. Compared to manifolds a good set of properly sized headers will always gain power everywhere in the powerband. I saw torque gains off-idle and on with TriYs on multiple engines. So I am not sure what you are trying to say. I even posted an engine masters article that had reference to factual gains on their build in the lower rpms using Tri-Ys. 30+ ft/lbs down in the 2,500 rpm range over 4 to 1 headers.

Finally another good reason to run the Vortec pump in a Vortec tank. The tank itself lacks any kind of baffling. The stock Vortec has a venturi style pump. The electric pump sits in a small reservoir of fuel that is fed by a venturi siphon. Without the venturi pump and its built in reservoir when the tank gets low and you accelerate it would be possible to starve the engine when the fuel flows away from the pickup.