1993 Yukon crate motor hydraulic roller lifter cleaning and adjustment journey - (Solved)

[Road Trip]

I got everything at 1/4 turn past what I thought was zero... Very close to where it should have been. Pretty neat just knowing when it will start clacking...and the thrill of when it doesn't so you can have hope you're making things even better..lol

Wish I knew how to make these things behave.... Like number 2 intake was a little ticky...redid my adjustment and it quieted down...

tried the same thing with number 6 exhaust and it doesn't want to change it's tune but I know it can be quiet... I think it was even quiet the past time I start the truck..I mean, you can't hear it over the engine.... But you know it's not as smooth as the others....even bumped it a little tighter but no luck... I mean, I know I can't go an entire eighth turn more right?? I don't think it would matter anyway the way these things act.....

Going to tear it down tonight to get the intake gasket replaced....God willing of course...

Hello Scott,

From your comments I can tell that you actually *do* know how to make these things behave.
As a matter of fact, if you were turned loose on a freshly rebuilt motor with all new parts you
would be astounded how each of the 16 individual lifters would act identically to each other as you
went through your running preload adjustment. It's amazing. Just like that guy in the video,
where he just cycles right through all the lifters in nothing flat.

But on a high mileage motor each of the 16 lifters develops a little 'personality' based upon any
normal wear on the outside and varnish accumulation on the inside. As you now know from
firsthand experience, it can be a little confusing working your way through all these variables
on your first running valve preload rodeo. :0)

You will find some people would have a problem understanding why would you put all this effort
into a high mileage motor instead of just building a new one? My answer is that it's much better
to learn these techniques on an older engine *first*, and then when it's time to set up the new
motor with the proper preload (cold then running) ...it will be like riding a bike. You will be able
to easily master the hardest part of dialing an engine in.

****

In the old days of pen & paper you would document that the 2I and 6E valves stood out during the
adjustment process, but the other 14 were pretty equal. IF you were to remove any lifters for
an exploratory during the upcoming intake manifold re-gasketing, these would be the 2 to do.

But since we're doing all this collaboration via computers then these valves are now documented
in this thread for posterity.

And finally, this past setting is all that you are going to get from the external adjustment. And
I would let this ride as-is for now. And if you want to make any further improvements, then you
will need to identify which valve(s) are noisier than you are comfortable with, and then decide
if you want to inspect (and possibly disassemble) just the noisy ones.

Food for thought.

 

[Road Trip]

I'm definitely not planning on pulling the cam . This will be exploratory as best I can. I already know things are caked up pretty good. Am I going to run into lifters that will fight me taking them out? Is there a trick if so? I just watched one video but he pushed them down to where the cam usually sits....

Healthy, happy lifters will pull out easily once you get the pushrod out of the way.
On motors that have been run hot, there can be a band of varnish on the outside
circumference down by the cam lobes where the lifter never goes into the block.
Sometimes this band of varnish can slow you down a little, but spraying a little
brake cleaner down there will usually get you past this. (With today's high detergent
oils I don't run into this as much as I used to.)

On the other hand, if the base of the lifter is deformed/mushroomed, not only will it not
come up, but if you force the issue then it's bad news for the lifter bore. The only solution
in this case is to remove the cam and push the lifter out the bottom.

In your situation? If the lifter doesn't come out easily, then it just told you all that you need
to know. There is damage, you have found the source of the glitter in your oil, so put it back
together and then it's "Decision Time".

Not trying to candy coat what you are into, but by the same token I'm not trying to doom & gloom
this also. Just trying to prepare you for what you may uncover.

Best case scenario: Any valves that self-identify as 'sticky/noisy' get pulled, no adverse wear, the interior
cleans up good, go back in, and your valvetrain is very, very quiet for a flat-tappet SBC of that vintage and mileage.

Worst case scenario: You go to pull the noisy lifters. The worst one refuses to come out, and the other
noisy ones come out, fail a visual inspection, so document them with photos, the engine gets put back together
with the new intake manifold gasket. And you have your answer.

Yikes... I don't see metal stuff like that anywhere yet... Just think there may be micro glitter.. Tough to tell but I see something every now and then that's making me think that's what it is....

So if I do get lifters out, can't just soak them in some mineral spirits or something and inspect? I'm second guessing if I should get into this now... But I can swing a reasonable amount of work.

And the third option? Just change the intake manifold gasket, and leave the lifters as-is, and let the
engine tell you over time if it's OK or not. If it's OK, it won't get louder over time, and may actually
get quieter as all the lifter internals 'break in' to their new positions. This is one possible outcome,
especially if the amount of glitter in the oil subsides.

Or, if one or more lifters get louder as the miles accumulate, then this tells me that you have a
lobe/lifter base combo wearing away. So if you are feeling time pressure or are unsure about
disassembling a hydraulic lifter, then you can decide to give the valves a good leaving alone &
just focus on the intake re-gasketing. Your call.

Whichever way you decide, this way the project is bounded, and the truck is back together in time
to go back to work for Monday. And do yourself a favor, the hydraulic lifter innards are small & spring
loaded, so don't take one apart over a storm drain or in the middle of a grassy yard. :0)

Real world? You are performing an exploratory diagnostic to see if you can locate the source of the
glitter in your oil. In the perfect world you would find zero wear on the lifters and the cam lobes
are pretty, you de-varnish the insides, and all is sewing machine quiet and happy in your engine bay.

Now to see what you discover. Beware of project creep! :0)

Cheers --

 

[scott2093]

In your situation? If the lifter doesn't come out easily, then it just told you all that you need
to know. There is damage, you have found the source of the glitter in your oil, so put it back
together and then it's "Decision Time".

Yes I understood that from the one video I watched....

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Best case scenario: Any valves that self-identify as 'sticky/noisy' get pulled, no adverse wear, the interior
cleans up good, go back in, and your valvetrain is very, very quiet for a flat-tappet SBC of that vintage and mileage.

That's the thing, they're all capable and have been quiet . Especially at 3/4 turn preload but the one that makes noise at startup sometimes is a mystery actually. I think it's one of the number 2 but I'm not sure why I can't tell.maybe that lottery thing you mentioned..... Even then, it quiets down so, in theory, no big deal....but that oil? I mean, I'm really thinking I'm seeing what could be considered the beginning of sludge but it's so minor right now I have to really zone in and obsess. But in a big volume, there is that swirling..... Maybe coolant...idk....

I was kinda wondering if I could get them out easily enough, a soak and agitation in mineral spirits would be good to get rid of the varnish...same with rods and rockers obviously. then roll the rods to check and inspect the lifters if possible..... ...But I'm unclear if that will mess with the lubrication? oil?all that stuff.... but they are caked with varnish no doubt....

I don't want a fight though......that video engine is hospital grade compared to mine....

I fired up the truck just for kicks before I removed the intake and it didn't tap and everything was quiet...lol
That's at a quarter turn preload..

I'm in now...just cleaned all the sillycone and getting ready to sop up the valley and get reset for my next move....

Tempting to leave well enough alone but, if things don't fight me, I wouldn't mind maybe looking at 2,,,maybe 4....idk...
Soaking in mineral spirits a bad idea..?

 

[scott2093]

ok...when I sopped up the oil from the valley...I see gray matter......but it looks brown in lower light.... and it reflects light like metal but it's not clear if it's pieces of metal.... Whatever it is, I think it's coming from what has been caked up everywhere....but I really can't tell. When there's a little bit of oil with it, it looks more gray..... but by itself...idk...can built up carbon break down like this??? I mean I just started using synthetic oil and rislone a few hundred miles ago....I actually do see a few random bits of what looks to be shiny metal in the video ...

I can handle bad news... whatever this stuff is, it's floating around and getting places for sure....it's obviously heavy enough to settle in sitting oil....

I did find literally like 5 super small specs of shiny material in my oil filter material after looking again earlier today....here's the bigger looking one in the photo......filter only has maybe 40 miles on it if that.....but there are definitely some shiny bits I found... But can count on my hand....filter could even have shed....but idk...

I don't remember seeing this kind of stuff when I did the intake gaskets a few weeks ago...But I was in a different mindset and maybe wasn't paying attention??

Here's a video...

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[Schurkey]

Soaking in mineral spirits a bad idea..?

No. But better to take them apart ONE AT A TIME for cleaning and inspection.

As said...if there's no crown on the bottom, there's no reason to clean and inspect...they're done. (And so is the cam.)

 

[scott2093]

hmmm..

Roller lifters? These are #2..

 

[termite]

hmmm..

Roller lifters? These are #2..

Appear to be rollers to me. Have you got clear view of the cam from the valley where you could post up a few clear shots of it? (I'm just following along here with no real advice to offer at this point)

 

[scott2093]

Have you got clear view of the cam from the valley where you could post up a few clear shots of it?

I'll try to get a shot from the bores. Idk... any recommendations for a cheap scope?

Just getting back to this and am stuck on disassembling the first lifter...Couple tiny pieces of carbon I found already which is good. I got the plunger wanting to come out but it's like the spring is stuck to it. So it's just pulling up but wants to go back down... I obviously don't want to force it out...

I'll definitely need a scope....here's a couple from my phone...... why does number 2 exhaust have what appear to be striations?

edit...just ordered

Daxiongmao Borescope​

...hopefully it will be here later today

​

 

[Road Trip]

hmmm..

Roller lifters? These are #2..

Wow, that's a pleasant surprise! Goes to show you that even though you have
a '93 Yukon with the original TBI setup that it *is* possible to already have a nice upgrade
underneath the stock bits in the form of a roller cam / 4 bolt main long block:

I swear I saw paperwork for the motor and it was a ToughOne engine when Advance sold them. I think it was Discount auto parts then. Our friend was a manager there and he hooked my buddy up at the time. He was kinda into performance, motorcycles mostly, but there is a chance I guess it may be a little different since he was into cool cars too... He only replaced the motor to be cool, not because damage....but I feel like there's a good chance it's stock.....just looked at a video I had of the rockers and the head is a 193..(14102193)

Only thing I know is it is a 4 bolt main from when I changed the oil pan gasket last year. I wish I had known to look closer at things when I was in there but, I'm learning as I go and I had a mobile mechanic helping me drop the transmission at the time and I was trying to get the oil pan gasket replaced overnight before he returned the next day to finish up.

Last night I edited a previous post having to do with the different options of how to
recover a flat-tappet TBI engine with a noisy valvetrain. The least desirable is #1,
with increasingly good choices up to #7. And then #8 is a roller cam upgrade.
(Edited post)

Congratulations, your discovery is a good one.
And the fact that the first 2 lifters came out is encouraging. Good stuff!

This now puts you squarely into Schurkey territory:

No. But better to take them apart ONE AT A TIME for cleaning and inspection.

Now I need to be careful to declare that we're not out of the woods yet. But
if you leave the quiet positions alone, remove the noisy ones, disassemble/clean/reassemble/etc,
inspect each cam lobe, and if the lobes pass a visual inspection then you really
have a chance of a quiet valvetrain. (!)

Work in an area where if you drop a small part you can find it afterwards.

And I see 2 lifters out. DO NOT mix up where each lifter came from. Don't care
if you put them into individual marked sandwich bags, or a couple of marked up of egg cartons,
but please maintain positive control over the original position of any lifters you remove. (!)

Tip of the hat to your friend the manager who hooked you up for real. And it proves
yet again that a lot of unexpected things can have happened in the engine bay of a
31 year-old GMT400. :0)

Cheers --

 

[termite]

I'll try to get a shot from the bores. Idk... any recommendations for a cheap scope?

Just getting back to this and am stuck on disassembling the first lifter...Couple tiny pieces of carbon I found already which is good. I got the plunger wanting to come out but it's like the spring is stuck to it. So it's just pulling up but wants to go back down... I obviously don't want to force it out...

I'll definitely need a scope.... why does number 2 exhaust have what appear to be striations?

Can't you remove the pan from the valley and gain a clear view of the cam? I've not had a SBC intake off in over 10 years but know I could see the cam in my BBC with just the intake pulled.