ShadowRejects
I drank the Kingpin koolaid
I know.. Im just so confused one why someone who does more towing and hauling will ever need a SAS. Just doesnt make sense to me.
sas minimum lift
- Thread starter cat-chevymech
- Start date
Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.
I know.. Im just so confused one why someone who does more towing and hauling will ever need a SAS. Just doesnt make sense to me.
Oh my god im ive read through his and im just banging my head.... its his truck if he wants to build a much stronger front end... (no need to argue here solid axle is stronger than ifs no matter how you slice It) and keep it at a lower height then who cares.... just like if you wanna run 35's on stock front end parts with a crank somebody may not like It but you do it anyway because its what YOU wanna do with YOUR truck. My only point here is that I dont understand why instead of helping the guy out with suggestions ita just become an argument over why he wants to do it.
eg30.06
I'm Awesome
Thankyou!!!
I made my sas about 3 inches high then stock and tell you what, i will never ever lift a ifs truck again! Its his truck do with it what he wants. Any questions on it ill be glad to help you out, goodluck!
noJeepshere
Newbie
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2013
- Messages
- 29
- Reaction score
- 0
Thank you! Somebody gets it.
noJeepshere
Newbie
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2013
- Messages
- 29
- Reaction score
- 0
Actually... I never did say what I want to do in this thread, no any on this board.
If I was building a tow rig, no way would I even bother lifting it, much less use a Yukon as a tow rig. Just sayin'.
As for my intentions, I want a rig that is tough, built with easy to find parts, on smaller tires, lockers front and rear, with decent flex, and capable of towing a trailer. Ever heard of "overlanding?" I was into adventure travel before it got a fancy name and became expensive to do. Lifting an ifs setup and adding beef with exotic parts (steel diff case, chomoly shafts, RCV cv's, upgraded steering etc) makes it impractical to get replacement parts in remote northern Canada, let alone many areas of the lower 48. Doing a sas on the other hand, makes a bunch more sense if you look at it that way. Using a common axle, albeit with chromoly shafts and a locker, with GM parts, and stock (-ish) sized tires makes it fairly easy to go into any tire shop or auto parts store (even in remote Canada) and getting replacements much easier.
I want it low so that it's more streetable, hence the spring-under and 4" lift GM springs in 47" flavor, as that will keep total lift low but still allow flex and stability on the street. And by "trailer" I mean one of those adventure trailers similar to a military M101 trailers, hauling it off-road on class 3 ish trails. And I want to install a custom front winch bumper, which would further strain an ifs setup, but not even bother a solid axle with the proper spring rate.
Now, I never intended to derail this thread, but since that has happened, (certainly not theory and philosophy of doing an sas) I will attempt to steer it back. Will a Jeep dana 44 with a spring under setup be ok for my needs? I tend to think so, and I'd like everyone else's input, for the original intent of this thread, what will work for a low-profile sas?
some people have real lives and have better things to do than wrench on junk ifs. I have done it myself and to me its not worth it, I don't care about the money its the time involved. and yes the truck is used for hauling and towing as well as dd but it gets its share of abuse in the mud and snow too. every truck ive had has been used this way, that's what its for, that's why I ordered a one ton because a half ton would not have handled it. its had either 33s or 35s on 10 inch wheels it since it was 6 months old and I know its harder on the front end parts but that's how I want it and with a sas that problem will be solved.
eg30.06
I'm Awesome
if i were you would would keep looking around for a ford dana 44, 60 or a chevy one but you would have to change your T-case around because chevy is passenger side drop. the width will be to narrow and not sure abut this but your brake setup may be a lil small coming from a small jeep to a full size truck.
great white
Retirement countdown!
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2012
- Messages
- 6,266
- Reaction score
- 209
Personally, I like the IFS because it's one of the main reasons GM was able to sell a bazillion GMT400s.
I run the IFS on my 98 K3500 and it is the 6.5 TD (translation: more weight over the front suspension).
The truck has 438,000 kms on it and I just changed out the ball joints, pitman, idler and tie rods about 3 years ago. Ball joints, idler and pitman were all factory pieces, tie rods had been replaced before. I do my own work because I can't stomach the thought of paying someone 150 bucks to install a $50 part when I'm more than capable of doing it myself. So my truck has about 7-800 bucks into the IFS since 98 and over 438,000 kms. That's not too shabby for maintenance costs.
Now, it's important to know I don't run large tires nor do I sink it in the mud or climb rocks. The truck is a heavy tow rig, a daily driver, runs fire roads and reasonably easy wood trails.
Most guys on these types of forums are going to have troubles with IFS components because A: they buy them old and don't have a lot of money to change everything out (IE: impression that IFS is crap) B: they run big tires C: They run lifts that take everything out of OEM spec or D: they use the truck like the OEM never designed it for (IE: sink in mud, rock crawling, etc)
Now, all that being said: There would be nothing wrong with swapping over to a D60, except that I'd be out looking for some drop hitch adapters and the resulting issues that will create when towing heavy. Gains would be minimal to nil in my rig though, except extra weight and less cargo capacity (more weight raises vehicle weight and reduces the amount of weight you can throw in the bed).
That big 60 isn't going to make a whit of difference either way when towing; it's just along for the rid like the IFS would be. The extra weight is actually a small hindrance as it's a few more pounds your drivetrain has to haul. A properly setup trailer doesn't unload the front wheels either, so the "more weight on the steering axle" argument doesn't hold any water...if you understand 5th wheels, goosenecks and weight distribution hitches you know what I'm talking about. Not to mention, the amount of weight a D60 adds compared to the trailer loading (if your trailer is heavy enough to actually unload the front) is inconsequential.
A D60 would be beneficial if you load the bed down with a cord of wood and crawl back out through rutted muddy wood roads. It would live longer than an IFS in the situ, even if on stock tire sizes. No doubt about that.
A 44 or 60 and leafs up front would also stand up better to abuse like snowplowing (IE: weight) better. My IFS carries a 7.5 foot Fisher minute mount plow, but it's only for my own 300 foot driveway and then it comes off. Yeah, it wears on it but it's only for as long as it takes to clear the driveway after a storm.
As far as "flex" goes; a D60 with "minimal lift" isn't going to be that much better than the stock IFS. the problem is in the geometry. The axle will be very close to the frame and oil pan so little up travel would be available. You would think the down travel would be good, but the problem is that as one side drops the other goes up/tilts in. It's a result of a hard link (IE: axle) between the tires. With the axle close to the frame, this is going to limit the amount of down travel. You might get a little bit more, but disconnecting the sway bar on an IFS would probably get you about the same. You could somewhat deal with the problem with the right bump stop design, but when the top of that tire starts to camber negative it's only a matter of time before it hits body metal or rails...
There are other issues with a solid axle on a GMT400 and keeping it low, but I think most of them have already been covered by previous posters.
There was a thread on FSC a few years ago where a guy made his own hangers and kept it pretty low. Maybe 2-3 inches over stock. I can't remember his screen name, but it was a dark blue extended cab. I can't remember if he used a D44 or bigger. It actually looked really good and he did pretty professional looking work. I'd give you a link to his thread if I could find it.....plus, FSC is just slow and frustrating lately.
Bottom line is you know how you intend to use your truck. If it's not fitting the bill as is, fire up the compressor and smoke wrench.
Just be honest with yourself about what you want it to do and do your homework about what your plans will actually get you.
Nothing worse than going through a major bit of work (and a big wad of cash) only to find out afterwards it was not really what you needed.
anyways, that's my .02
Cheers
I run the IFS on my 98 K3500 and it is the 6.5 TD (translation: more weight over the front suspension).
The truck has 438,000 kms on it and I just changed out the ball joints, pitman, idler and tie rods about 3 years ago. Ball joints, idler and pitman were all factory pieces, tie rods had been replaced before. I do my own work because I can't stomach the thought of paying someone 150 bucks to install a $50 part when I'm more than capable of doing it myself. So my truck has about 7-800 bucks into the IFS since 98 and over 438,000 kms. That's not too shabby for maintenance costs.
Now, it's important to know I don't run large tires nor do I sink it in the mud or climb rocks. The truck is a heavy tow rig, a daily driver, runs fire roads and reasonably easy wood trails.
Most guys on these types of forums are going to have troubles with IFS components because A: they buy them old and don't have a lot of money to change everything out (IE: impression that IFS is crap) B: they run big tires C: They run lifts that take everything out of OEM spec or D: they use the truck like the OEM never designed it for (IE: sink in mud, rock crawling, etc)
Now, all that being said: There would be nothing wrong with swapping over to a D60, except that I'd be out looking for some drop hitch adapters and the resulting issues that will create when towing heavy. Gains would be minimal to nil in my rig though, except extra weight and less cargo capacity (more weight raises vehicle weight and reduces the amount of weight you can throw in the bed).
That big 60 isn't going to make a whit of difference either way when towing; it's just along for the rid like the IFS would be. The extra weight is actually a small hindrance as it's a few more pounds your drivetrain has to haul. A properly setup trailer doesn't unload the front wheels either, so the "more weight on the steering axle" argument doesn't hold any water...if you understand 5th wheels, goosenecks and weight distribution hitches you know what I'm talking about. Not to mention, the amount of weight a D60 adds compared to the trailer loading (if your trailer is heavy enough to actually unload the front) is inconsequential.
A D60 would be beneficial if you load the bed down with a cord of wood and crawl back out through rutted muddy wood roads. It would live longer than an IFS in the situ, even if on stock tire sizes. No doubt about that.
A 44 or 60 and leafs up front would also stand up better to abuse like snowplowing (IE: weight) better. My IFS carries a 7.5 foot Fisher minute mount plow, but it's only for my own 300 foot driveway and then it comes off. Yeah, it wears on it but it's only for as long as it takes to clear the driveway after a storm.
As far as "flex" goes; a D60 with "minimal lift" isn't going to be that much better than the stock IFS. the problem is in the geometry. The axle will be very close to the frame and oil pan so little up travel would be available. You would think the down travel would be good, but the problem is that as one side drops the other goes up/tilts in. It's a result of a hard link (IE: axle) between the tires. With the axle close to the frame, this is going to limit the amount of down travel. You might get a little bit more, but disconnecting the sway bar on an IFS would probably get you about the same. You could somewhat deal with the problem with the right bump stop design, but when the top of that tire starts to camber negative it's only a matter of time before it hits body metal or rails...
There are other issues with a solid axle on a GMT400 and keeping it low, but I think most of them have already been covered by previous posters.
There was a thread on FSC a few years ago where a guy made his own hangers and kept it pretty low. Maybe 2-3 inches over stock. I can't remember his screen name, but it was a dark blue extended cab. I can't remember if he used a D44 or bigger. It actually looked really good and he did pretty professional looking work. I'd give you a link to his thread if I could find it.....plus, FSC is just slow and frustrating lately.
Bottom line is you know how you intend to use your truck. If it's not fitting the bill as is, fire up the compressor and smoke wrench.
Just be honest with yourself about what you want it to do and do your homework about what your plans will actually get you.
Nothing worse than going through a major bit of work (and a big wad of cash) only to find out afterwards it was not really what you needed.
anyways, that's my .02
Cheers
Last edited:
SIKAZPHUC
Newbie
My .02 cents on the subject and being diplomatic and realistic about this option as much as I can......as I have been there, done that on many occasions on both ends of the spectrum.
My SAS project was fun, different (at the time cause there were not that many done at that time yet), expensive as HELL cause I cut no corners, and spared no money to build it. It was my baby, daily driver, and was going to be an average weekend warrior before I sold it. It worked well, I put all the good parts in it, but still had it's issues. Would I do it again? no! For the cost, time involved and the small PITA issues related afterwards....I would have put the money into a square body GM instead for the gain there was. I was running 40's and still was going through lower bearings in the D60 setup for a daily driver/worker. Rode like with the spring/leaf swap (link it is the only answer), steered like hell till the hydro assist.....but did it look deadly? Hell yes! Did it turn heads and get lots of attention....absolutley. But if you are trying to do it on a budget....take some advice and go pick up yourself a 73-87 and worse case scenario swap in a 60 to the front of it (bolts right in) and you can pretty much do what ever you want to it and save ALOT of work and headaches if the SAS swap is being planned to be executed properly.
Now of course this is all based that if you are going to use it as a daily driver.....If you are planning on just building an offroad wheeler, cut her up and make it work. No complaints here. After doing one myself and driving it for nearly 8 years, I just would never go to all that work for that particular body style again just for kicks when GM made a good solid axled truck in the previous body style already. IFS is great for a daily driver that you are not going to kick on a daily basis. Parts wear out....IFS has it's issues with axles (usually due to guys having them cranked to far, or getting air under full throttle). Solid axle trucks go through ball joints and axle joints and axle seals too....they are not indistructable...yes built stronger than the IFS for sure...but depends what your actual realistic driving habits/plans are for the truck. I don't regret building my truck because it was cool, a great experience and knowledge building project...just would opt alot of different ways if I needed a strong work horse or dependable offroad truck. There are WAY more realistic GM options out there unless you are completley stuck on the 88 and up body style. Which is totally up to you...just giving the no bull point of view.
Good luck with the build.
....and to add to the post above, my 01 Yukon XL 4x4 has just hit 400,000km on it.......original axles, ball joints, and tie rods to date. It see's rough gravel roads, deep snow, and pavement. And it runs 22x10 wheels in the summer. In fact the whole truck is still 100% stock parts driveline except for some A/C work, idler pulleys, intake gasket, and passlock repair. Transmission still holding strong and it pulls our 5000lb camper in the summer months through hills and valleys. Maintenance and common sense goes a long ways, and from what I can tell she is still going strong with no major issues in sight.
My SAS project was fun, different (at the time cause there were not that many done at that time yet), expensive as HELL cause I cut no corners, and spared no money to build it. It was my baby, daily driver, and was going to be an average weekend warrior before I sold it. It worked well, I put all the good parts in it, but still had it's issues. Would I do it again? no! For the cost, time involved and the small PITA issues related afterwards....I would have put the money into a square body GM instead for the gain there was. I was running 40's and still was going through lower bearings in the D60 setup for a daily driver/worker. Rode like with the spring/leaf swap (link it is the only answer), steered like hell till the hydro assist.....but did it look deadly? Hell yes! Did it turn heads and get lots of attention....absolutley. But if you are trying to do it on a budget....take some advice and go pick up yourself a 73-87 and worse case scenario swap in a 60 to the front of it (bolts right in) and you can pretty much do what ever you want to it and save ALOT of work and headaches if the SAS swap is being planned to be executed properly.
Now of course this is all based that if you are going to use it as a daily driver.....If you are planning on just building an offroad wheeler, cut her up and make it work. No complaints here. After doing one myself and driving it for nearly 8 years, I just would never go to all that work for that particular body style again just for kicks when GM made a good solid axled truck in the previous body style already. IFS is great for a daily driver that you are not going to kick on a daily basis. Parts wear out....IFS has it's issues with axles (usually due to guys having them cranked to far, or getting air under full throttle). Solid axle trucks go through ball joints and axle joints and axle seals too....they are not indistructable...yes built stronger than the IFS for sure...but depends what your actual realistic driving habits/plans are for the truck. I don't regret building my truck because it was cool, a great experience and knowledge building project...just would opt alot of different ways if I needed a strong work horse or dependable offroad truck. There are WAY more realistic GM options out there unless you are completley stuck on the 88 and up body style. Which is totally up to you...just giving the no bull point of view.
Good luck with the build.
....and to add to the post above, my 01 Yukon XL 4x4 has just hit 400,000km on it.......original axles, ball joints, and tie rods to date. It see's rough gravel roads, deep snow, and pavement. And it runs 22x10 wheels in the summer. In fact the whole truck is still 100% stock parts driveline except for some A/C work, idler pulleys, intake gasket, and passlock repair. Transmission still holding strong and it pulls our 5000lb camper in the summer months through hills and valleys. Maintenance and common sense goes a long ways, and from what I can tell she is still going strong with no major issues in sight.
Last edited:
ShadowRejects
I drank the Kingpin koolaid
No where was I was trying to tell him what to do with his truck. If he's going to blow over $2,000 on an SAS that he will never use then he can be my guest.
Thats probably the stupidest thing i've ever heard is someone wanting to solid axle swap a rig that sees more road use than anything. You might as well go SAS a track car.
Just my .02
Good luck on whatever path you decide to take
Thats probably the stupidest thing i've ever heard is someone wanting to solid axle swap a rig that sees more road use than anything. You might as well go SAS a track car.
Just my .02
Good luck on whatever path you decide to take
