96' K1500 Braking HELL

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KalebK1500

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So starting with what I've done I've replaced the rear brake pads and springs as well as wheel cylinders (did this for both sides) now after bleeding them they felt good but when stopping they lock up now I'm not sure if it's front or rear locking up because when it stops it slides; now when it slides it kinda turns the front end goes left towards the divider line for example and the rear wants to slide right like its spinning out, ive already had to mess with the rear breaks and they work way better than they have before but when coming to fast stops for example 50mph then slowing down fast for a red light, it slides and it always wants to slide that way; nose turning left and the rear sliding right like its trying to go diagonal. The only thing I can really think of is maybe the front brakes? Another thing to note is the ABS light IS ON however the front wheel speed sensors are working and the abs has been bleed. Like I stated before the only thing I can think of is the front left caliper is locking up? At this point I have no clue so any input would be greatly appreciated:)

-kaleb
 

Schurkey

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What brake option code? JB5 would be most common.

Take it out, make it slide to a stop. GET OUT AND LOOK AT THE SKID MARKS. You'll figure out which tire(s) are sliding, and therefore which brakes need attention.

Did you bleed the ABS with a scan tool? Why isn't the ABS activating to prevent the wheels from locking-up? Connect a scan tool, find out why the ABS light is on.
 

Das Hatt

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While you had the drums off, did you check to be sure they are both within spec? Maybe one side is more worn than the other? Also, when you reassembled everything did you adjust the shoes so they are the appropriate distance from the drums without the brake applied? Do you have your parking brake installed and adjusted properly?
 

someotherguy

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Are the shoes installed correctly - leading shoe towards the front of the truck? That's the one with less span of material. Getting this wrong can cause a lockup.

Richard
 

DesertRat828

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Ditch the rear drums if you can. My 95 k1500 had what I called "prayer" brakes. Because if you ever had you stop short and suddenly you were definitely praying it stopped in time.

This is the kit I went with.

And I opted for the parking brake calipers along with the newer style master cylinder.

At the same time I did this upgrade I also installed new stainless steel brake lines throughout the entire system. Since I had gotten the truck the rear brakes wouldn't bleed no matter what, even with my pressure bleeder. I ended up finding a pinch in the line heading to the back. And since I was doing all of this I bought a set of braided stainless steel hoses as well. The results were nothing short of incredible. The brakes in my truck feel like the brakes in a truck that was just driven out of the dealership. I highly recommend this upgrade for anyone with an OBS Chevy.
 

Caman96

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When JB5 brake system is working as it should, as mine is, they are fine. My pedal is right up there. Would I rather have a 14b with 11” brakes…yup, but maintained and properly adjusted brakes on JB5 work fine.
 

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Are the shoes installed correctly - leading shoe towards the front of the truck? That's the one with less span of material. Getting this wrong can cause a lockup.
Virtually all 1500 pickups have the horrible 254mm (10 inch) leading-trailing shoe disasters. (There are some exceptions.)

There is no difference between the leading vs. trailing shoes in the JB5 rear brakes.

There are other leading/trailing shoe brakes where the shoes are different--a Ford Focus has thicker lining on the leading shoe, for example.

If the JB5 rear brakes are working properly--and that's not as common as we might hope--they're still only 10" drums of unexceptional width. In particular, they're entirely unsuitable for bigass tires that inherently have low rpm/mile.
 
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someotherguy

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Virtually all 1500 pickups have the horrible 254mm (10 inch) leading-trailing shoe disasters. (There are some exceptions.)

There is no difference between the leading vs. trailing shoes in the JB5 rear brakes.

There are other leading/trailing shoe brakes where the shoes are different--a Ford Focus has thicker lining on the leading shoe, for example.
Wouldn't have believed you until I looked them up. Checking several example pics on Rock for the 10" drum shoes, I see what you mean.

I guess I've been lucky to have never owned one that had that crummy setup. Typically on 400's I've been doing brakes on 1500's with the big drums (extended cab longbed, Suburbans) or 9.5 14 SF's (my old 2500LD) or 10.5" FF on 3500's.

Pictured here in an example of wheel cylinder failure leaking fluid all over the brakes, you can see the difference in the leading shoe to the right, which is facing the front of the truck. That's on a 9.5" 14 SF though..
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Richard
 

Caman96

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If the JB5 rear brakes are working properly--and that's not as common as we might hope--they're still only 10" drums of unexceptional width. In particular, they're entirely unsuitable for bigass tires that inherently have low rpm/mile.
That ^^^ is a must with the 10” brakes. And, I mean the whole system. Air in ABS, bad hoses, issues with front brakes, power booster or MC. Since you’re already behind the 8 ball with JB5, you have to have it all in spec with good parts to even have a chance.
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Wouldn't have believed you until I looked them up. Checking several example pics on Rock for the 10" drum shoes, I see what you mean.
Scary, isn't it?

I guess I've been lucky to have never owned one that had that crummy setup.
Yup.

Pictured here in an example of wheel cylinder failure leaking fluid all over the brakes, you can see the difference in the leading shoe to the right, which is facing the front of the truck. That's on a 9.5" 14 SF though..
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^^^ 11.x inch Duo-Servo brakes. Primary shoe is shorter, softer, thicker, often lighter-colored. Secondary shoe is longer, harder, thinner, generally dark-colored. The purpose of the primary shoe is to cram the secondary shoe into the drum harder than the hydraulic system alone can. This is called "self-energizing". If it's TOO effective, the brakes lock up. If it's MUCH TOO EFFECTIVE, the brakes stay applied when you pull your foot off the brake pedal. Happens more often when the brake return springs get weak, AND the shoes get contaminated with brake fluid or gear lube.

Since you’re already behind the 8 ball with JB5, you have to have it all in spec with good parts to even have a chance.
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Leading/Trailing shoe brakes. The leading shoe does almost all the braking going forward. The trailing shoe does almost all the braking in reverse. Guess which shoe tends to wear-out faster. Thus some Leading-Trailing shoes having more material on the front shoe.

This design is also self-energizing in that the main braking shoe (front going forward) is dragged "down" by the rotation of the drum and wedges into place based on the geometry of the anchor points. The less active shoe (rear shoe when going forward) tends to get wedged "upward" by the rotation of the drum, which helps braking power directly, but also pushes on the more-active shoe through the wheel cylinder hydraulics.

Same deal--if the shoes get contaminated, the self-energizing action can make the wheel skid, or the brakes fail to release.

GM, Ford, Chrysler, and AMC went decades using Duo-Servo brakes on their main fleet of vehicles. Why they switched to Leading/Trailing drums on smaller cars, I have no genuine knowledge.

My best guess it that they needed some design that would work for a park brake, but NOT work as well on the back of wrong-wheel-drive vehicles so they didn't overpower the lightly-loaded rear tires leading to a skid. The GM "X" body (Citation, and clones) had problems with the park brake power vs. service brake power--if the shoes were aggressive enough to hold the vehicle when the park brake was set, they would lock the wheels in a panic stop. Folks died.

How the leading/trailing design was approved for a pickup is probably similar--when unloaded, all the weight is up-front like a wrong-wheel-drive vehicle. Overly-aggressive rear brakes would make the back end skid, and that's never good unless you're TRYING to spin the vehicle.

But all that is just a guess, and maybe not even a good guess. I wasn't there when the engineers and cost-accountants did their thing.
 
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