NBS master cylinder Swap

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L31MaxExpress

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Ahh, mine don't warp they heat check. But it's so hard to get good rotors I'd just as soon replace them every time I do pads which seems to be every 40k.
In mostly city driving with the weight of the van and the way it likes to coast on forever I am lucky to get half that. I have driven in some states where drivers are more aware and considerate of others as well as less traffic overall and driven through the whole state without touching the brakes on the interstate. Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas drivers are horrible by comparison. You cannot drive a mile without having someone cut you off and having to apply the brakes. I-40 through Tennessee is a joy to drive compared to I-35 from San Antonio to Fort Worth.
 
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Pinger

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Most everyone uses their brakes incorrectly.

OK, that's a bold statement, and it does matter what your priorities are. When I transported my elderly and infirm parents and in-laws, I used my brakes incorrectly, too. Their comfort meant more to me than brake life. Obviously, when coming down the mountain with a trailer load, or in an emergency, or driving on wet/icy/gravel roads, you don't have a lot of options--you're going to brake however you need to to get stopped.

Ideally, when there is a choice, to maximize brake life, the faster you go, the harder you stop. As your speed reduces, particularly below 15--20 mph, you begin releasing pedal pressure. As the vehicle comes to a stop, you're releasing even more pressure. The suspension returns to near-normal height in front just as the vehicle stops.

While stopped, you're holding only as much pressure as it takes to remain stopped--you're not hard on the pedal.

WHY:

  • The rotors are vented. Drums usually have fins cast into them. Rotors and drums are designed to get hot, They're also designed to move cooling air.
  • The pads/shoes are insulators in addition to being friction material
  • Brake fluid (especially old fluid) expands when hot, potentially boiling if it's absorbed water.
  • Most brake fluids LOVE to absorb water
  • The most-contaminated fluid is usually in the wheel cylinders/calipers.
  • Wheel cylinders including calipers have rubber parts in them, wheel cylinders do better if they don't get overly-warm.

SO:
Vented rotors are essentially centrifugal air pumps. The faster they spin, the more cooling air they move. At low speed, they don't move much air. Braking hard at high speed creates heat, but the rotor is turning fast and pumping lots of cooling air. The rotor gets hot, which is fine. It's designed to get hot. The cooling air carries away the heat, and everything is good.

The pads get hot on the surface that contacts the rotor. Pads are designed to take some heat. "Street" compound friction material works good when cold, better when warm, and not so good when really hot. "Racing" pad material works better when hot, but doesn't really apply to street-driven vehicles.

If the pads stay in contact with a hot rotor, eventually they get hot all the way through, and then they transfer heat to the caliper.

The caliper transfers heat to the fluid. Bad things happen then.

Use the brakes harder when there's more cooling airflow. DON'T glide to a stop with the brakes applied gently for a long time; that gives heat time to travel through the brake pad and warm the caliper and fluid.

And don't clamp the pads tighter than needed to the hot rotor when stopped, for the same reason. HOT friction material can actually transfer to the HOT iron--rotor or drum. Then you have brake pulsing until it wears off again.

Get ON the brakes, and then get OFF the brakes. The point is to let the iron (rotor and drum) get hot while they're still turning fast enough to pump air, while minimizing the temperature and time-at-temperature of the pad, caliper, and fluid. It makes more difference with disc brakes, but it's worthwhile on drums, too.

Folks will ***** that you're trying to "throw them through the windshield" and "you're really hard on your brakes". In fact, your brake linings will last longer. Taking a long time, braking too gently, is what's hard on brake linings and brake fluid. You put a lot of heat into the rotor when it's turning too slow to pump cooling air; and you brake for a long time so that heat travels through the pad into the caliper and fluid.

Good point about vented discs (rotors) being air pumps. Even solid ones are worth the same treatment - a point I picked up from guys rallying where at the end of a timed stage when they had to stop and collect their time they'd always release the brakes for them to cool evenly (avoid distortion) and keep the heat away from the calipers.

Short and sharp - there was a few years ago at the launch of a pretty trick Porsche 911 criticism that it was underbraked with owners complaining of fade. Walter Rohrl demonstrated otherwise by lapping the Nurbergring faster than them without any fade. The difference was he went late and hard into the brakes and then released them. The amateurs braked early and were slow to let them off again. The extra time the amateurs spent on the brakes compared to Rohrl was the difference between them fading or surviving. And he was quicker...
 

Supercharged111

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Good point about vented discs (rotors) being air pumps. Even solid ones are worth the same treatment - a point I picked up from guys rallying where at the end of a timed stage when they had to stop and collect their time they'd always release the brakes for them to cool evenly (avoid distortion) and keep the heat away from the calipers.

Short and sharp - there was a few years ago at the launch of a pretty trick Porsche 911 criticism that it was underbraked with owners complaining of fade. Walter Rohrl demonstrated otherwise by lapping the Nurbergring faster than them without any fade. The difference was he went late and hard into the brakes and then released them. The amateurs braked early and were slow to let them off again. The extra time the amateurs spent on the brakes compared to Rohrl was the difference between them fading or surviving. And he was quicker...

When determining the braking zone wait until you see God, count to 3, then brake for your life. Guess what? Still too soon.
 

Gibson

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Ok,, so my experience with the 1500s is minimal, I don't have a 1/2 ton, don't ever want one, just too much light duty stuff built into them that most peeps want to change out anyway.
Too many people spend too much money and time trying to turn their 1500 into a 2500/3500, and the results are seldom as good as if they just started out with a 2500/3500.
That said, their was a service notice for increasing the effectiveness of the rear brakes for the JB/JD7 systems that were used in the 8600GVW Subs and trucks.
It was to change the combination valve over to the one that was used in the JB/JD8 brakes.
The stock JB/JD7 combo valve is about a 600psi unit, and the JB/JD8 used one that is about 800psi.
Swapping a bunch of hardware around without using the proper combo valve doesn't make a lot of sense.
The duel/step bore MC is CORRECT for a disc/drum setup, the straight-bore NBS MC is NOT a good choice for a disc/drum system, it's designed for 4 wheel discs which do not need nearly the volume of fluid supplied as rear drums need.
For those with the JB/JD 3,4,5,6, (whatever,) brakes,, I'm sorry.
 

Supercharged111

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The combination valve only exists in the TBI trucks though, so I guess I'm in luck on the 1500. The later 3 channel ABS trucks must have had different ABS pumps with different metering
 

kylenautique

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I wanted to throw out my experience on the NBS MC swap. My k1500 has the JB6 brakes. When I did this swap I could never get good brake pressure. I have a GM tech 2 scan tool so I can bleed the ABS properly as well as a brake bleed system. I ended up ditching the whole setup and installing a hydroboost from a 98 k2500. That is THE BEST way to correct the brake issues on these trucks. You need to install the JB7 k2500 calipers to do this. If you are running bigger tires, hydroboost is the best way to go.
 
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