1993 Yukon crate motor hydraulic roller lifter cleaning and adjustment journey - (Solved)

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Road Trip

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kinda freaking out...Just started with number 2 valves. did the exhaust....Went to do intake...probably 1/2 turn before it clacked...but it was not a sharp clack...more like looseness...didn't sound normal...almost diesel sound...Still a clack I guess but it stood out as different sounding for some reason...
So I went to tighten it and it won't budge. I'm afraid to crank on it.... Just using a little 3/8 socket atm.....

It's only got a couple of threads left..maybe 1.... I'm afraid to loosen it more too obviously...haven't tried....
Shut off truck and still can't tighten??
Sos...

on a positive note, 1 3 5 and 7 are super quiet now.... kinda creepy...

is it normal for the rocker nuts to bind like this? should I give it more force? I can tell it's jammed for some reason...

edit....I gave it a little more force and it moved...Still really tight....crusty feeling....too tight imo...

Problem now is #2 exhaust and #4 intake are not pumping oil...just started doing this....

edit...gave it some revvs and #4 intake started pumping again but then stopped....

this side is definitely noisier...but it cleared up pretty nice after running a while...

Guess I'll stop now, try to organize my notes and get back at it tomorrow... have a feeling whatever is going on isn't the best but not the end of the world hopefully.... Idles and revs very nice and smooth now.......but it usually behaves pretty good in that way so we'll see..

Did 1/2 turn on the 2 4 6 8 as well....

Sounds like you have the Left bank in a good place. The valvetrain is accelerated and decelerated
at high speeds. And the sound of lifters tapping is the sound of parts hammering, pure and simple.

So the sound of quiet is when everything is set correctly, and you are making full use of the
clearance ramps on both sides of the cam lobe. (When there's excess clearance in your valve train it's pretty
much the same as when you drive your vehicle straight over a curb. Adjusted correctly to make use of
the clearance ramps, now it's like driving over the same curb with a wooden ramp in front of it -- so
much less shock stress over time.)

As for the lock nut questions. Most of the time the lock nuts will loosen up a bit, if anything.
But once in a great while I've had one start to tighten up & act as if it was going to seize on
me. On a couple of occasions I've replaced a problem lock nut. (See attached for a couple of
examples for the SBC.) I seem to remember a lock nut that didn't want to tighten, so I
brushed a little anti-seize on the stud, backed it off, wiped down the threads, and the new
nut went on with no problem. (The stud threads looked fine.)

Thanks to manufacturing tolerances, there's a bell curve for these lock nuts when it comes
to 'running torque'. (Resistance to turning.) In a set of 16, most are the same, one or two might
be a bit looser, and maybe 1 will be tighter. Luckily, replacements for out-of-spec lock nuts are readily
available and cheap. If that #2 intake nut is balky and making you nervous, maybe replace it and retry
the adjustment?

One last thing. That thread count of '5' is just a theoretical example, not necessarily a goal
or an ideal. If all 16 assemblies end up close to the same to each other, that is the real goal,
whether it's just 2 threads, 6 threads, or some value inbetween.

There's a lot of reasons why your thread count might be only a couple of threads, but the
point is that we just want them to be close to the same. (Remember, each thread is worth
~.060" worth of vertical travel at the lifter, so we just do the thread count as a mechanical
cross-check to verify I am getting this right.)

For what it's worth I've sorted out several new builds by others over the years that wouldn't
run smoothly (after verifying that the ignition & fueling were correct) by performing a running
preload adjustment. For whatever reason there would invariably be one of more lifters
bottomed out internally, and the builder would be surprised, thinking that they were all
set perfectly.

NOTE: When the preload was bottomed out, a compression test would be close but off a little,
but a leakdown test would then positively identify the misadjusted valve(s) via the hissing sound
out of the exhaust pipe or throttle body. (!) And then you would pull the valve cover and see
the suspect valve showing 1-2+ additional threads on the stud than the other valves.

****

Apologies for the long explanation, but at the same time it feels good to share these
valvetrain tricks with The Next Generation of GMT400 owners. I look forward to
seeing just how smooth & quiet you can get your old crate motor to operate.

Best of luck getting the right bank to match the left bank.

Cheers --
 

Attachments

  • SBC 350 Melling Rocker Arm Nut MRM-1786.jpg
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  • 350 SBC - Sealed Power Engine Rocker Arm Nut MR-1751 - Advance Auto Parts .jpg
    350 SBC - Sealed Power Engine Rocker Arm Nut MR-1751 - Advance Auto Parts .jpg
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  • cam base circle diagram.jpg
    cam base circle diagram.jpg
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scott2093

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Need to quit using the cheap STP dino?..

Here are the driver's bank threads....I'll write my notes up for driver's side ... I'm trying to digest what you just wrote. Totally understand but there is some technique I'm blowing over. Need to free up space in my mind. Once I get my notes down, I'll take a hard read... Still need to get pics of passenger side as it sits...
Playing hooky from work and obviously would like to get her back on the road but since she's open I wan to do what I can....
 

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  • 93 YUKON 3_4_24.jpg
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scott2093

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here are the numbers for driver's side... I swear that's what I did... makes zero sense to me....
I'll organize my recording for passenger side and complete the sheet. Then I'll go out and take pics of passenger threads

I was closer to 1/8 turns for everything just 1/8 light if I had to say. Then translated that to 1/4 turns...of course I'm doubting now since it wasn't my main focus and want to do it again....maybe some were 3/16....

What a circus... Not knowing what I did in previous attempts including trying a cold adjustment really makes things confusing...
 

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  • 93 Yukon Hydraulic Lifter running preload results driver side 3_4_24.jpg
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Road Trip

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here are the numbers for driver's side... I swear that's what I did... makes zero sense to me....
I'll organize my recording for passenger side and complete the sheet. Then I'll go out and take pics of passenger threads

I was closer to 1/8 turns for everything just 1/8 light if I had to say. Then translated that to 1/4 turns...of course I'm doubting now since it wasn't my main focus and want to do it again....maybe some were 3/16....

What a circus... Not knowing what I did in previous attempts including trying a cold adjustment really makes things confusing...

scott2093,

Your thread photos and data collection are EXCELLENT and give me the same view
as I would get if I was your neighbor and we were working shoulder to shoulder.
Instead of trying to infer what you are facing, thanks to your disciplined data capturing
I can see exactly what you ended up with.

My initial reaction is that your latest running preload is a success. If the left bank
is now quiet then what you have done is simply to (literally) listen to the engine
and let it tell you where the optimum setting is. Good job.

Now to understand/explain why there is variation between the thread count across
the 8 rocker arms on the left bank. Given the estimated 150K miles on the crate motor,
I am not surprised that there are variations. But I'd like to do some additional research
and come up with clear, concise analysis, so this is coming asap. But at the same time
I wanted to give you some initial feedback while I go off and do that.

For now, it looks like you located a couple of real outliers (#1 & #5 intakes) so you are
making some real progress. And if you think that the misadjustments occurred during your
initial cold preload attempt, as long as the engine stays quiet & smooth, then no harm,
no foul. This is all part and parcel of the hands-on learning process for the DIY guys & gals.

Some persevere through all this and enjoy being a little more self-sufficient than the
average car owner. And the ones that give up before they get it right take up golf or
other pastimes. And sit in the waiting areas while the mechanics work their magic and
ponder the size of the bill they are facing.

Looks like you are going down the DIY path. Congrats!

More in a bit. Gotta go gonkulate. :0)
 
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scott2093

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No rush at all..thanks for the new word....
I can't believe how long it's taking me to make notes...and I just went out to remove valve cover to check threads but started the truck out of curiosity....it tapped on passenger side...Figured it would...Driver side is so quiet....
Now I'm addicted...
# 2 intake and exhaust sound great...number 8 exhaust perfect....but rest were tapping a bit... Of course I went and did another readjustment on 4 6 8.... but think I eneded up right where I should have from last night....

Same results....#2 nice...#8 exhaust nice....but rest are slightly ticking....this is all after 1/2 turn.......
chasing the dragon now...

will post everything here shortly...

oh and #8 intake quit pumping oil to rocker..# 4intake still not pumping....but number 2 started again........

edit...here's passenger side from last night...
I need to note what I did this morning....and will post to add to confusion...

edit just looked at my adjustments this morning and it looks like I took 1/4 turn more than I should have from my adjustments last night to get clacking on #6 intake and #8 intake.. if that makes sense..

going to pull the cover and look at threads..
definitely not satisfied with the passenger side apart from 2 and 8 exhaust

EDIT...attaching passenger side threads as they sit...
 

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  • 93 Yukon Hydraulic Lifter running preload results driver side 3_4_24 with pass side.jpg
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  • 93 YUKON PASSENGER SIDE 3_5_24.jpg
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Road Trip

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Hello Scott2093,

I think that the progress you are making is evidence that you are headed in the right
direction. Especially when learning a new technique, removing the burden of having
to remember what was previously done to the 16 individual rocker arm adjustments by
writing down your results is going to help you. Not only get through this session faster,
but it will be easier to re-familiarize yourself when you do this again (on the same or
different SBC) down the road.

It's like sighting in a scope on a rifle. By taking 3-shot bursts, marking them, making
adjustments, taking another 3-shot burst, and repeating until you are on the bullseye.
We let the target paper be the process memory, freeing up precious brain space to focus
on the actual fine tuning. :0)

****

Back to what you are doing. Studying your results, it looks like this most recent
check/adjustment uncovered #8 exhaust at '0', while #6 exhaust at '8.5'? Getting
all 8 on the passenger side to a consistent '1/2 turn past just quiet' (.030" preload)
should give you the quiet(est possible) setting.

NOTE: What we are doing with this running preload is simply making the very best of
what we have to work with. (!) If I'm asked my opinion, it can be boiled down to these
2 statements:

* Setting the preload and capturing the data gives us a known starting point. If anything
audibly changes down the road we now have a documented starting point to compare our
new readings against. In English, the longer we keep this 'point in time' data, the more
valuable it becomes *if* ever needed.

* It is not a 'cure-all'. If we set the preload like this after a fresh rebuild, and the engine never
changes it's sound for the expected service life, then we successfully made this adjustment
so as to take full advantage of the lifetime design elements, and we win.

On the other hand, IF we are performing a running preload on a used engine exhibiting an
'untunable' rough idle and/or excess valvetrain noise, then we have to consider this a valvetrain 'diagnostic',
which will identify problem areas requiring further investigation, and at the same time will
also idenfify which of the 16 assemblies are OK and we can leave them be.

And if all the stars align, performing a running preload adjustment on a used engine will clear
up existing adjustment errors, there aren't any burned valves/seats, bad cam lobes, etc...and
the engine will respond to a regular tune up, clear the codes (if any) and straighten up & fly right. :0)

Where you will fall with your older crate motor is still currently up in the air. Even if this engine isn't
capable of delivering perfection at this stage in it's service life, you will have still accomplished 2 things:

* Made this engine run as best as it possibly can.
and
* If you ever install a new cam/lifters/rocker arms/etc in the future, you will have a much better
grasp of what's involved and how to set it up for success.

****

FWIW, right now I'm chasing down a definitive explanation for the Rain Bird syndrome that you
have identified for the #1 Intake. (Refer to "oil metering disc" in attached diagram.)

More soon.
 

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  • SBC hydraulic lifter oiling diagram(upsized).jpg
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scott2093

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I know nothing.....

Thank you so much for all the information.
It's strange to me that there would be so many turns on some of them. I mean, doesn't that mean some were near the danger zone?

Anyway, I just fired it up after sitting for a couple of hours at least and I heard 2 ticks on passenger side......then normal

All sounding really good..man #2 exhaust just sounds like wooshing ..it's so nice and smooth....

So number 6 intake seemed to be making noise more than the others so I decided to give it another try.. 1/4 turn and it started clacking?
How is that possible when I had set the preload to 1/2?? That mean I should go through them again?

Really happy with the way it seems to be acting and sounding....You think the rislone in here will help ..Not going to lie, I wasn't impressed with the cleanliness of everything....I've been good with oil changes but it's always been STP high mileage conventional....? Number 2 exhaust decided to shoot a bit sideways...we've all been there I'm sure....
 

Road Trip

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I was going to take a break from the hydraulic lifter rabbit hole and instead
ask you how is the engine running now, big picture-wise? I'm primarily interested in:

* Idle quality
* Any Codes? Even codes that don't set the SES light?
* How does your live data look on your scan tool?
* And how does it drive?

Given your thread-count photos and the data you shared, I think you are pretty close to
the adjustment bulls-eye. At this point putting some miles on what you got (with a small
notebook in the glovebox to document anything out of the ordinary as it happens) ...will
give us some valuable overall engine health context to work with.

No hurry, especially if the engine is now running better than before you started. Meanwhile,
I'll finish pulling together the hydraulic lifter chronicles and post that here asap.

Cheers --
 
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