Too many Oxygen sensors!

[Nad_Yvalhosert]

Different laws apply to off road vehicles. If you look at the OP first thread, He states that the truck is an off road vehicle.

And you ABSOLUTELY believe him? A little scepticism is best these days. And recomending ways to violate federal law is probably bad.

 

[kennythewelder]

If your not driving the vehicle on the street, then you do not need an emissions testing. If you dont need emissions testing, then there is no way for the vehicle to fail something that doesnt happen anyway. A lot of states do not even require emisions testing at all. Through emission testing is where and how the feds will catch up with you. They are not standing on the corner pulling over vehicles to check for cats. Yes the fine can be up to $10,000 but if you dont get cought, then you wont have to pay anything, and like I said, that takes emission testing. If thats what happen to you, well that sucks.

 

[kennythewelder]

And you ABSOLUTELY believe him? A little scepticism is best these days. And recomending ways to violate federal law is probably bad.

Didnt say I believe Him or not. You know your local laws, and how strict they are on those and federal laws as well. If its an issue for you, then dont do the mod. Its that simple.

 

[Nad_Yvalhosert]

As mentioned, the 2 front 02 sensors adjust fuel trim. The 2 rear 02 sensors, basically let the ECM know the cats are working by comparing the 02 level before and after the cats. Yes this can be tuned out, also there are simulators that can be installed. There are 2 types. One is done with an electrical resistors and other electronic parts. Youtube has videos on making them. And there is a simulator made from 4 spark plug nin fouler spacers with a little piece of the honey comb material that is inside of the cat it self. You have to cut and grind the honey comb to fit inside of the non fouler. Use a mask when grinding, along with eye protection. I made a set of the simulators when I gutted my cats with that material from the cats and the spark plug spacers. They have been on my truck for several years, never a CEL. It works better with 2 different size non foulers. The longer one goes closest to the cat with the honey comb inside. Here are a few pics of mine.

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By the way, you can purchase such an item. Check out BigDaddiesGarage.com

 

[kennythewelder]

By the way, you can purchase such an item. Check out BigDaddiesGarage.com

They are the same as the ones I made. Only difference is, bigdaddies are made from stainless steel stock, and turned to size.

 

[618 Syndicate]

"Off-Road" makes NO difference to the EPA. NONE. Not even "racing vehicles" made from production cars are exempt.

Any Federal agent you might ******** can make your life miserable over emissions violations.

The likelyhood of that happening is low, but possible.

This simply isn't true. The EPA have no jurisdiction for emissions standards of vehicles for anyone other than the original manufacturer. Not seller, manufacturer.
There are no federal agents from the EPA running around checking vehicle emissions, and federal DOT cops couldn't care less about privately owned on-road vehicles, much less ones operated solely off road.
Think about the logic of your statement. If what you claim was true, for the last 50 years (the EPA was created in 1970) every car, bike, and truck in every race of every racing series, in fact every sporting event in which internal combustion engines were used would have been in violation and subject to fines. Obviously this hasn't happened.

You provide a lot of valuable information to us all on many topics, but you're wrong about this.

 

[stutaeng]

I thought emissions testing was up to the state/local government as well? Here in the state, only the counties with higher population density check emissions. I believe otherwise it's just safety inspection.

I was shocked in college when my former roommate who lived in the country told me no emissions for them out there! His old 83' or whatever Ford F150 smoked like a train, LOL. He was legally exempt since the truck was registered in another county.

And after 24 years old, the state doesn't even do emissions anyways. So that's like 95% of all GMT400 in the state, give it take, LOL.

Don't even remember what the OP was asking now. I thought like 4 sensors per side or something like that? Sounds like 4 total. I suppose if no emissions testing, can do only 2 upstream or just delete them all? Who knows?

 

[Schurkey]

This simply isn't true... ...you're wrong about this.

Ooops. I fukked up.

The EPA regulating race cars was a 2016 proposal, not actually enacted. (...yet.)

https://jalopnik.com/the-epas-crackdown-on-race-cars-explained-1758111546

SEMA announced a pending EPA rule that, in the interest of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, would “prohibit conversion of vehicles originally designed for on-road use into race cars” and “make the sale of certain products for use on such vehicles illegal,”

EPA is proposing in 40 CFR 1037.601(a)(3) to clarify that the Clean Air Act does not allow any person to disable, remove, or render inoperative (i.e., tamper with) emission controls on a certified motor vehicle for purposes of competition.

The EPA later backed-down.

However, if the vehicle has a license plate and is registered, emissions controls are a matter of FEDERAL regulation. The states can also enforce their own inspections.

So "off-road" still must meet FEDERAL emissions standards if it's registered and has a license plate; but there's little enforcement.

OTOH, if you get an FBI agent, an ICE agent, Border Patrol or anyone else with FEDERAL authority angry with you, and they put a mirror under your vehicle to look for catalysts...and don't find them, I suppose they'd have the authority to take you to Federal court to explain why.

The fight against the EPA ban on production-based race cars is STILL ONGOING.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/fight-for-your-right-to-race-epa-race-car-ban-2020-update/

Although the EPA did not finalize the proposed rule, the agency still maintains the practice of modifying the emission system of a motor vehicle for the purpose of converting it for racing is illegal. Manufacturing, selling and installing race parts for the converted vehicle would also be a violation.The EPA has also announced that enforcement against high performance parts—including superchargers, tuners, and exhaust systems—is a top priority for 2020.

If you disagree with this obvious over-reach of EPA authority, send your complaints to
Senile Joe
White House
Washington, DC

 

[Erik the Awful]

Thanks, as soon as I read your statement above, I went digging.

"Motorized vehicles which are not intended to carry people or objects on public roads—bulldozers, farm tractors, snowmobiles, airplanes, etc.– are generally considered “nonroad vehicles.” In 1990, Congress amended the definition of “nonroad vehicle” to permit the EPA to regulate some nonroad vehicles such as locomotives, snowmobiles, and off-highway motorcycles. However, Congress unequivocally excluded competition vehicles from the definition of “nonroad vehicle” (“the term ‘nonroad vehicle’ means a vehicle that is powered by a nonroad engine and that is not a motor vehicle or a vehicle used solely for competition”). Similarly, a “nonroad engine” means an internal combustion engine that is not used in a motor vehicle or a vehicle used solely for competition. As a result, based on the statutory text and the legislative history, competition vehicle emissions have never fallen under the ambit of the EPA and the CAA, as amended. As discussed in the section below, the EPA shares this understanding and is seeking to end the emissions control exemption for competition motor vehicles such as the light-duty motor vehicles commonly used in motorsport."
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...epa-memo.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0sYpIkzICJgcCS7Z1a8Sgd

On the other side of the issue, you have guys 'rolling coal', which amounts to being an wiener just because you think you can. Note the "Diesel Brothers'" $850k fine for selling emissions-cheating parts under the guise of "non road use" for vehicles that were absolutely intended for the road. I'm all for hot rodding and performance parts, but they had that coming.

There's a middle ground we need to be fighting for, where we both protect our air and get to have fun. Negotiating in good faith and not cheating makes a middle ground possible.

 

[618 Syndicate]

Ooops. I fukked up.

No worries, it happens to the best of us.

The EPA later backed-down.

However, if the vehicle has a license plate and is registered, emissions controls are a matter of FEDERAL regulation. The states can also enforce their own inspections.

So "off-road" still must meet FEDERAL emissions standards if it's registered and has a license plate; but there's little enforcement.

Nope, EPA regs are applied to manufacturers not consumers (buyers). It is illegal for a buyer to tamper with or remove an emissions control device for a road going vehicle, however by definition off road vehicles (which are not required to have registration, and are thus not able to be legally used on-road) don't have to meet federal emissions standards.
Additionally, there are no federal emissions testing stations; the responsibility for ensuring that road going vehicles meet emissions standards has been passed on to the states (like registration, licenses to operate, etc.) and they enforce (or don't enforce) how and where they want.

OTOH, if you get an FBI agent, an ICE agent, Border Patrol or anyone else with FEDERAL authority angry with you, and they put a mirror under your vehicle to look for catalysts...and don't find them, I suppose they'd have the authority to take you to Federal court to explain why.

If ICE, FBI, CBP, or any other federal agents put a mirror under your vehicle, they ain't looking for emissions violations...

The fight against the EPA ban on production-based race cars is STILL ONGOING.

That's good to know.

If you disagree with this obvious over-reach of EPA authority, send your complaints to
Senile Joe
White House
Washington, DC

Calling an attempt to protect the environment by the agency created to oversee environmental protection is hardly over reach, that's literally what they're supposed to do.
That being said, I agree that this particular area of enforcement is unnecessary and unhelpful, (also I hate it because it would ruin some of my favorite things to do) and we should let our representatives know we aren't in favor of it. There are better ways to clean up the environment.