PSA for camshaft expansion plugs+ flex plate!

[Insert Quarter]

Because I can get 40+ psi cranking the tool by hand, and never have to bother connecting a drill to the tool, or to air pressure, and I don't have to put the drill away and coil-up the air hose afterward.

In--out--done--FAST.

Fair enough

And again, just curious, (you mentioned prefilling the lifters, and the preference for the front oil gallery plug with the bleed hole) when you're priming by hand and see the oil pressure gauge read 40+ how do you know it's not reading trapped air?

Meaning, How do you know the initial gauge reading is the pressure of actual oil, and not the pressure of the air while it's trapped between the pump and the lifters before the air is pushed out the hole in the front oil gallery plug?

 

[Schurkey]

And again, just curious, (you mentioned prefilling the lifters, and the preference for the front oil gallery plug with the bleed hole) when you're priming by hand and see the oil pressure gauge read 40+ how do you know it's not reading trapped air?

Meaning, How do you know the initial gauge reading is the pressure of actual oil, and not the pressure of the air while it's trapped between the pump and the lifters before the air is pushed out the hole in the front oil gallery plug?

I can feel that the oil pump has oil in it (purged of air, i.e., primed) AND the oil filter is full of oil (purged of air, i.e., primed) because I can feel the resistance/smoothness of the pump moving oil vs. spinning in air, and it has this minor resistance for a few revolutions which would have to be the filter filling up. Then, fairly suddenly, the resistance dramatically increases and really-quickly the pressure gauge shows oil pressure as room-temp oil is pushed through the restrictive passages of the oil galleries. How much of the oil galleries gets filled depends on the location of the pressure-gauge tap.

But purging air from the pump and filter--and as a bonus, some amount of the oil gallery drillings--is the real purpose of "priming", and that's readily accomplished and proven by getting oil pressure...and then spinning the oil filter back off. It'll be messy, because the filter is now full of oil, not air.

There's no need to push oil through the entire oiling system, so if there's air in some of the oil galleries, as long as the oil pump and filter are full...I'm happy.

Realistically, with a submerged oil pump, priming is almost unneeded. The pump WILL fill itself and the filter when the engine is started--it just takes a few seconds that can be reduced by priming the system ahead of firing the engine. Priming can be critical with non-submerged pumps, though. They can take a frightful amount of time to suck oil out of the pan, through two feet of suction plumbing--pickup tubes, drilled passages, etc. and then fill the pump before filling the oil filter.

 

[Erik the Awful]

And again, just curious, (you mentioned prefilling the lifters, and the preference for the front oil gallery plug with the bleed hole) when you're priming by hand and see the oil pressure gauge read 40+ how do you know it's not reading trapped air?

If the oil's coming out of the pushrods, you've purged the air out of it. There are plenty of places for the air to escape before it gets to that point.

I can feel that the oil pump has oil in it (purged of air, i.e., primed) AND the oil filter is full of oil (purged of air, i.e., primed) because I can feel the resistance/smoothness of the pump moving oil vs. spinning in air, and it has this minor resistance for a few revolutions which would have to be the filter filling up. Then, fairly suddenly, the resistance dramatically increases and really-quickly the pressure gauge shows oil pressure as room-temp oil is pushed through the restrictive passages of the oil galleries.

+1

There's been a lot of VERY CONFIDENT talk, but nobody has posted anything to support it.

In my first week as a tech, I did the used car inspection and oil change on a GMT400. I forgot to put oil back in it. As part of the inspection I drove about a mile to assess the chassis. As I pulled back into the dealership the engine got up to operating temperature and the lack of lube caused the engine to stall. Doh! I immediately knew what I'd done. I stopped where I was at and put oil in it. It ran fine afterwards, but I'm pretty sure I stamped an expiration date on that motor. The dealership put the truck right on the lot and sold it, and to this day I feel guilty about it. I immediately started putting the oil filler cap on the hood latch whenever starting an oil change - which I do to this day.

When I discovered what I'd done, one of the other techs I worked with confided that a few years earlier he'd forgotten to put oil back in a customer's Altima. He called her cell phone and discovered she was twenty miles from the dealership, on the highway. She pulled over, and he sped down the highway to dump four quarts of oil in her crankcase and told her that if she had any problems to bring the car in. As far as he knew, she never had any issues.

Also, remember back in the day at auto shows when the oil additive guys would "prove" how great their product was by draining the oil from a running engine? So long as there was no load on the engine it could idle forever. You could do the same thing with an engine with normal 'dinosaur' oil.

I'm curious why some people will passionately disregard the recommendations of Chevrolet, the bearing manufacturer (Mahle Clevite), and AERA.

Because I'm guessing those recommendations were written by lawyers instead of engineers. It's all C-Y-A rather than actually useful, assuming relatively freshly-applied assembly lube, or assembly lube chosen for the ability to withstand an expected storage-time.

Bingo. Set the bar really high, and when the part fails and it goes to court, they can ask if the customer followed the unnecessarily long pre-lube procedure. Then it's up to the customer to prove that the break-in procedure was unnecessary.

 

[Schurkey]

If the oil's coming out of the pushrods, you've purged the air out of it. There are plenty of places for the air to escape before it gets to that point.

In his defense...I don't prime anywhere near long enough to get oil out of the pushrods.

As I understand it, that's pretty-much his point. He thinks the rocker arms should be squirting oil in 2 1/2 minutes of "priming" and crank-turning; I'm done priming at whatever it takes to show oil pressure on a gauge--perhaps 30 seconds although often it's less than that, and I do not turn the crank. (Assuming a submerged oil pump. Buicks suck--literally--they can be difficult to get oil up to the external pump, and the pump housing is aluminum so it scores and doesn't pump efficiently. Some guys pack the oil pump with Vaseline, others have other tricks including pressurized "garden sprayers" or metal oil tanks pressurized with compressed air, connected to the oil pressure sending unit port, squirting the 5 quarts of oil into the oil gallery directly. Point is, a NON-submerged oil pump can be way more difficult/time consuming to prime.)

I've seen posts on various forums from guys who've primed submerged pumps until the drill motor smoked, (and the they get another drill motor!) priming/turning the crank/priming/turning the crank/onandonandonandon, and STILL COULDN'T GET OIL TO THE ROCKER ARMS even though they've achieved more-than-adequate oil pressure a long time ago. Two and a half minutes would be a blessing to them. They're priming for twenty minutes or more, and not getting the results they expect.

In the engine (not on the bench) the lifters may need to be moved by the cam, raising and lowering, before they'll push oil up the pushrods.

"Priming" is "removing air". The biggest air pockets are the new or disassembled/inspected oil pump and fresh oil filter. If they're filled...I'm done priming.

 

[Insert Quarter]

and STILL COULDN'T GET OIL TO THE ROCKER ARMS

I agree.

If it's taking longer than 3 minutes and they're not getting oil at the rockers then they should take a step back, something isn't right.

I agree, using too small of a drill will just burn it up, and they will never be able to build the pressure needed and hold it for long enough time to purge air all the way to the rockers. Simply, wrong tool for the job.

You will feel resistance using a drill as well. I use a 1/2" air drill, if I don't have access to air then I use an old 1/2" corded Dewalt. Both drills "bog down" so to speak when oil pressure starts to build, and you can feel that resistance.

And I also agree modifying an old distributor is ideal. An old distributor engages the oil pump drive shaft at the correct height so that the body of the distributor is at the correct height to seal the oil galleries.

If it's taking longer than a couple minutes, I think the most likely cause is using the wrong priming tool. (Pic in post #47) The Moroso 62200 is an oil pump priming tool. To prime the rest of the oiling system, a primer is needed that seals the oil galleries, like the Moroso 62205.

If using the correct style priming tool, proper size drill, and still having troubles, they may be using a priming tool like the Speedway one (Pic in post #47) that doesn't line up properly to seal the oil galleries.

And lastly, if they're still having troubles, check the depth of the pin on the priming tool that engages the oil pump shaft. If that is at the wrong height, it can cause the tool to sit high or low and not seal off the oil galleries properly.

He thinks the rocker arms should be squirting oil in 2 1/2 minutes of "priming" and crank-turning;

To be complete: Chevrolet recommends priming for 3 minutes. AERA and Mahle/Clevite recommend priming until there's oil at the rockers (which if taking longer than 3 minutes means something is wrong). And yes, you are correct, in that I do agree with those recommendations.

The reason I say that it because I follow Comp Cams install procedures which recommends soaking lifters but to NOT pre-pump/prefill lifters (page 3 #9). I believe this is why AERA and Mahle Clevite recommend to continue priming until oil is at the rockers, purging the air out of the lifters and oiling system.

Bingo. Set the bar really high, and when the part fails and it goes to court, they can ask...

Honestly, I don't think it's lawyers or liability, I think it's recommended because clean oil is the best lubricant for an engine.

From what I've read and understand the other part of the reasoning for their priming recommendations is that assembly lube is designed to protect the engine bearings and parts during assembly. Assembly lube also helps with corrosion protection while it's sitting, being installed, etc. before initial priming and starting.

Assembly lube is not designed to create the hydrodynamic wedge needed to keep the crank/rods/and cam from touching the bearings in a running engine. Recommended best practice is to prime the engine for 3 minutes in order to flush as much of the assembly lube out of the bearing clearances as possible and to ensure that fresh oil can reach the parts as quickly as possible. Good clean oil is the best protection for bearings and parts in a running engine and the sooner it can get there the better. If oil wasn't the best at this, Clevite would recommend filling the pan with assembly lube instead of oil.

 

[Hipster]

Out of curiosity, if you were in the OP's shoes, installing this engine that you didn't build, using a proper sized drill

(Note - The builder forgot to install the cam plug and an oil galley plug, and not knowing what, if any assembly lube was used, not knowing if the oil galleys and pushrods were cleaned properly, not knowing how the lifters were installed and adjusted)

Would you still prime for 30 seconds and if the oil pressure gauge reads ok "fire that bytch up"?

Then find out after the engine is running whether or not oil is getting to all the lifters and if they are passing oil to all the pushrods and all the rockers.

I have already mentioned to him that it might be in his best interest to do a teardown and inspect everything. Pretty sure others have suggested/agreed with that as well. You're doubling back now but an assembly issue is not a priming issue, and if you never over primed one to see the cam paste dropping off in glops down into the oil pan not really sure what to tell you other it can and does happen especially in engines like Mopars if priming until you get oil up top. Oil paths being clear etc are part of the assembly process. If you did your job there's no issue. Almost every cam manufacturer supplies a tube with a cam purchase. I like to see it still in place after priming. Rotating an engine over by hand removes a ton of it as well and it's heaped up in big blobs. ALL new stuff is roller cam different game, and it's not clear in your copy and paste job what type of engines are being discussed and what part of it is your injected opinions.

 

[Hipster]

Fair enough

And again, just curious, (you mentioned prefilling the lifters, and the preference for the front oil gallery plug with the bleed hole) when you're priming by hand and see the oil pressure gauge read 40+ how do you know it's not reading trapped air?

Meaning, How do you know the initial gauge reading is the pressure of actual oil, and not the pressure of the air while it's trapped between the pump and the lifters before the air is pushed out the hole in the front oil gallery plug?

trapped air? trapped where? it's an open circulatory system fed by drainbacks to the supply side, again if you have blockages that's a different matter as stuff wasn't assembled correctly. Zero pressure on the return side. If it wasn't for an oil pan collecting it, it would be a total loss system. Clevite makes bearings so their view on film thickness etc is understandable but that only pertains to that aspect of the engine.

 

[Insert Quarter]

and if you never over primed one to see the cam paste dropping off in glops down into the oil pan...

OP was installing a SBC.

What do you mean when you say over-priming an engine? If it takes longer than a few minutes something isn't right. Stop, and figure out what's going on.

On a SBC, how do you see globs of oil coming off the cam lobes and going in to the pan?

Most importantly, If you're priming an engine and so much oil is going past the lifters that it's washing off the cam paste, your lifter bores are most likely worn badly and you need to have the lifter bores bushed or find a different block.

Edit - I forgot to mention the third option, depending on the value of the block, of sizing the lifter bores for the larger Ford lifters

 

[Hipster]

OP was installing a SBC.

What do you mean when you say over-priming an engine? If it takes longer than a few minutes something isn't right. Stop, and figure out what's going on.

ok, so you do get it. As what's being discussed many people prime one to no end rotating one around trying. Generally prime one with the intake off, when I see oil at the cam bearings I'm pretty much done. Kinda like the pic you posted of the SBC being done that way. Been involved in other peoples crap where they totally over did it.

 

[Insert Quarter]

trapped air? trapped where?

Did you read the second part of what you quoted? I think that'd answer your question. If not, let me know.