PSA for camshaft expansion plugs+ flex plate!

[618 Syndicate]

Don't speak for everyone, I've literally never seen this.

Most of us in the truck world have. Stick around long enough, you will too.

There's been a lot of VERY CONFIDENT talk, but nobody has posted anything to support it.

How would you quantify this? each camp has running motors that have been assembled like they think is best, sooooo.....

I'm curious why some people will passionately disregard the recommendations of Chevrolet, the bearing manufacturer (Mahle Clevite), and AERA.

Because we don't all have the same goals. Manufacturers create policies to reduce their legal exposure, in many cases there are better ways to do things if that is not your primary concern.

 

[someotherguy]

Reminds me of buddies' dad changing his oil. He pulls the filter, drains the oil pan, bumps the engine a couple times "to make sure all the old oil is out" LOL, puts a new filter on dry, adds the new oil and done.

All varying opinions on the priming topic aside, this here is some genius-level BS. I think we can all agree that old man is nuts. But he probably "never had any problems doing it this way" so the confirmation bias is strong!

Richard

 

[Insert Quarter]

Most of us in the truck world have. Stick around long enough, you will too.

To expand on my original statement. Twice I've seen an engine run on zero oil pressure, one was a SBC, the other was a 1.8L Ecotech. They both did appear to "run fine" at the time. They both subsequently (one at 6 months, the other a year) developed a rod knock. Although I've seen an engine run on zero oil pressure, that's what I was thinking when I said that I've never seen an engine "run fine" on zero oil pressure.

But he probably "never had any problems doing it this way" so the confirmation bias is strong!

LOL - True, luckily he also doesn't change his oil that often.

 

[Schurkey]

I'm curious why some people will passionately disregard the recommendations of Chevrolet, the bearing manufacturer (Mahle Clevite), and AERA.

Because I'm guessing those recommendations were written by lawyers instead of engineers. It's all C-Y-A rather than actually useful, assuming relatively freshly-applied assembly lube, or assembly lube chosen for the ability to withstand an expected storage-time.

As already said...the oil drains down every time you shut off the engine, but nobody "primes" (actually "prelubes") the engine each day, before going to work in the morning, or grocery shopping in the evening. Once the oil pump is full of oil, and the filter is full of oil...the engine internal parts see pumped oil within a couple of seconds of starting the engine--and that's achieved on a fresh engine by priming (NOT "prelubing") until you see oil pressure, and then stopping.

"Fixing" the problem of oil draining down is why anti-drainback valves on oil filters, and vented oil gallery plugs were installed. Anti-drainback valves keep the filter full, along with a few inches of the main oil galleries. The vented plug(s) allow the air to bleed-out rapidly while having little effect on oil pressure--same situation as the "vapor return line" on the old engine-driven fuel pumps.

Reminds me of buddies' dad changing his oil. He pulls the filter, drains the oil pan, bumps the engine a couple times "to make sure all the old oil is out" LOL, puts a new filter on dry, adds the new oil and done.

No amount of explaining why that's a bad idea changes his mind.

It's a bad idea because it's a waste of time. I'm not thrilled with the additional cranking rotations, the same way I'm not thrilled with cranking an engine with disabled fuel or ignition, to build oil pressure before starting 'n' running. But "bumping" during an oil change is essentially not harmful given the billions of rotations those parts see when the engine runs, versus a few "bumps" at oil-change time when the engine is already warm, and has thus been freshly-supplied with oil everywhere internally. Those parts will start getting pressurized oil again about three seconds after the engine starts. I used to fill oil filters on Chevys that had the filter straight up 'n' down, but not on engines where the filter sits at an angle. Not all that important particularly on engines that are already in service.

Cranking the engine to drain additional oil is not something I'd do or recommend, because I don't see where the additional oil that would be drained-out is coming from--bleeding-down the lifters, maybe. But then, I've never tried it, either. How much additional oil does your buddy's dad get by "bumping" the engine?

When I change oil on my Honda motorcycle, I tip the bike to one side as far as I have the strength to hold it. I do get additional oil draining out from that maneuver because the lil' reservoirs that hold puddles of oil for the camshaft lobes get some drainage, and would then refill with fresh oil a few seconds after the engine starts. There's three or four ounces of additional oil that I can get out by tipping the bike.

 

[Insert Quarter]

Because I'm guessing those recommendations were written by lawyers instead of engineers. It's all C-Y-A rather than actually useful, assuming relatively freshly-applied assembly lube, or assembly lube chosen for the ability to withstand an expected storage-time.

Out of curiosity, if you were in the OP's shoes, installing this engine that you didn't build, using a proper sized drill

(Note - The builder forgot to install the cam plug and an oil galley plug, and not knowing what, if any assembly lube was used, not knowing if the oil galleys and pushrods were cleaned properly, not knowing how the lifters were installed and adjusted)

Would you still prime for 30 seconds and if the oil pressure gauge reads ok "fire that bytch up"?

Then find out after the engine is running whether or not oil is getting to all the lifters and if they are passing oil to all the pushrods and all the rockers.

 

[L31MaxExpress]

Don't speak for everyone, I've literally never seen this.

There's been a lot of VERY CONFIDENT talk, but nobody has posted anything to support it.

I'm curious why some people will passionately disregard the recommendations of Chevrolet, the bearing manufacturer (Mahle Clevite), and AERA.

Reminds me of buddies' dad changing his oil. He pulls the filter, drains the oil pan, bumps the engine a couple times "to make sure all the old oil is out" LOL, puts a new filter on dry, adds the new oil and done.

No amount of explaining why that's a bad idea changes his mind. LOL

Out of curiosity, if you were in the OP's shoes, installing this engine that you didn't build, using a proper sized drill

(Note - The builder forgot to install the cam plug and an oil galley plug, and not knowing what, if any assembly lube was used, not knowing if the oil galleys and pushrods were cleaned properly, not knowing how the lifters were installed and adjusted)

Would you still prime for 30 seconds and if the oil pressure gauge reads ok "fire that bytch up"?

Then find out after the engine is running whether or not oil is getting to all the lifters and if they are passing oil to all the pushrods and all the rockers.

I personally do not worry about the lifters oiling until after the engine runs. I like to perform a running valve adjustment as that is the easiest way to find zero lash. I set them close enough to run, then re-adjust them after it fires.

I am very confident in the way I do things because I have had many runners and torn down others that have had other failures not related to the way I performed the install/break-in. I had one munch a valve for example from a failed beehive spring which was not related to break-in.

Why would I flush the $$$ assembly lube out by continuing to prime the system? The lubricant itself is designed to protect parts during the initial startup.

 

[Insert Quarter]

I am very confident in the way I do things because I have had many runners and torn down others that have had other failures not related to the way I performed the install/break-in. I had one munch a valve for example from a failed beehive spring which was not related to break-in.

The question was in regard to the OP, who was installing an engine that he did not build

 

[Schurkey]

Out of curiosity, if you were in the OP's shoes, installing this engine that you didn't build, using a proper sized drill

I wouldn't use a drill. See my previous post #23 for photos of "my" style of priming tool.

(Note - The builder forgot to install the cam plug and an oil galley plug, and not knowing what, if any assembly lube was used, not knowing if the oil galleys and pushrods were cleaned properly, not knowing how the lifters were installed and adjusted)

Would you still prime for 30 seconds and if the oil pressure gauge reads ok "fire that bytch up"?

Then find out after the engine is running whether or not oil is getting to all the lifters and if they are passing oil to all the pushrods and all the rockers.

Oof. I'd have a hard time installing that without tearing it back down and inspecting everything.

My "Like" to that post was done on May 14.

Excessive "priming" is no substitute for proper cleaning, inspection, and assembly. So, NO, I would not waste time spinning the oil pump trying to get oil at the rocker arms. If I had a bad feeling about the engine...it comes apart.

It is well within my capacity to pull that engine apart for inspection. Not sure that's the case for the OP. Maybe yes, maybe no. Perhaps the best "middle-ground" would be to yank the intake manifold, valve covers, loosen the rocker arms and remove the pushrods KEEPING EVERYTHING IN ORDER. Then remove and pressure-feed the lifters one-at-a-time as I've described in other posts using a pump-style oiler. This removes the issue of lifters not passing oil to the pushrod seat, and allows visual inspection of the assembly lube used on the lifter bottoms/cam lobes. At that point, the OP had better be able to find "zero lash" in order to re-set lifter preload upon assembly. Visually verify the lifter plunger position since the intake is off, and then reinstall the intake manifold using new gaskets/sealer.

So--as always--it's up to the guy doing the job to determine if he's willing to trust the previous workmanship, balanced against his time, knowledge/experience, and tooling constraints.

I think this engine is a calculated risk; the OP could decide to prime and fire--knowing he may have to adjust lifter preload, or perform other work as required. I've already discussed painting stripes on the pushrods, and viewing them to verify that they spin through windowed valve covers; and bypass oil filters intended to catch assembly debris and (primarily) wear particles.

Starting the engine on a run-stand makes all this easier--but that pretty-much requires a carburetor and non-computer ignition system. So probably not feasible in this case.

 

[Insert Quarter]

I wouldn't use a drill. See my previous post #23 for photos of "my" style of priming tool.

Saw that previously, "by hand", you're basically just priming the oil pump

Again, just curious, what's the reason you prefer doing it by hand and not using a 1/2" drill?

 

[Schurkey]

Because I can get 40+ psi cranking the tool by hand, and never have to bother connecting a drill to the tool, or to air pressure, and I don't have to put the drill away and coil-up the air hose afterward.

In--out--done--FAST.