First real test drive today, after V8 swap.

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L31MaxExpress

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When you wrote this I *knew* that we are on the same page. No other method gives
me the same long-lasting, no premature valve float upstairs, weird idle issues that we finally
track down to 'too much preload' x higher than expected oil pressure {cold oil} that
causes just enough valve unseating to rough up the idle...and then of course the
symptoms disappear when the engine warms up and the idle oil pressure drops, yada yada yada.

(Maybe because over the years I've kinda become the old dog motorhead of last resort in
my local ecosystem, I seem to have encountered way more than my fair share of engine
misbehavior tracked down to goofy valvetrain maladustments. :0)

...but I digress. Over in @DeCaff2007's "Correctly Setting Valve Lash" thread, Sweden's resident
GMT400 ambassador (@1990Z71Swede) linked to a short, concise, complete with *good* audio,
demo of a hot/running lash adjustment on a SBC. The only strangeness was was that the link
said something about the video no longer being allowed to run off of the YouTube reservation?
{EDIT: New behavior. Just click on the "Watch on YouTube" phrase below.}

Anyway, here's the link that I think Decaff should watch/listen to carefully:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

As a matter of fact, I used to perform my running lash adjustment *exactly*
the same way he's doing it. But I really didn't like the rough running (while
actually adding the preload right after the clatter goes away), giving it a little
gas to compensate, the rpm jumps, the oil starts flinging...arrrrrghhh!

Some time later, I read somewhere of an even better way to do this.
Go through all 16 valves, one a time, back them off until they clatter, and
then tighten each one just until it's quiet. Move to the next, repeat the
same thing, until all 16 are done. Engine stays smooth, zero adjustment drama.

Shut the engine off.

NOW set the preload on all 16 to whatever your preferred value is. (I favor
a quarter-turn for myself & my buddies, 1/2 turn for a customer's DD, etc.)

Upon restart, the engine should will continue to be as perfectly smooth
and quiet as it was pre-shutdown, especially if you give it a few moments
for all the lifters to bleed down to their new setting. It's like magic.

What can I say? If you have no choice but to run hydraulic lifters in a
pushrod V8, this is the only way I've found to get it really right.

And the cost? A pair of junk tin valve covers at the local Treasure Yard.

(Oops -- just got notified that Schurkey's posted a reply. Absolutely no
doubt that he has a different yet equally valid technique to get the valves
set up for success. It's like an All U Can Eat adjustment buffet. Choose the
method that appeals to you most & run with it.)

The bottom line? When I'm working with my preferred medium (ie: solid lifters)
I can get exactly what I want with a set of feeler gauges and a breaker bar
on the front crank snout.

But when I'm forced to sort out hydraulic lifters, if I'm under the hood with
you we're eventually going to end up with a pair of cheap cut-up valve covers
and doing a running valve lash adjustment. And with any luck, a quiet engine
to take us out to a victory meal of extra spicy Thai food. ;0)

This is a good discussion. As evidenced by the trouble that our OP has had
in this area, getting a good valvetrain adjustment is one of the harder things
to get right for the everyday otherwise well-adjusted car enthusiast.

Cheers --
I just let mine run rough for a moment or two. They smooth right out even idling after slowly cranking in the additional preload. At low idle the oil that comes off the roller rockers is minimal. Stock stamped steel rockers do make a bit more of a mess though. Stock stamped steel rockers, I will cut a piece of cardboard the length of the head about 3" tall, stand it straight up in the lower edge of the heads valve cover rail and use it as a deflector. The oil hits the cardboard and runs right back into the head. If you smear a little oil on the backside of the cardboard where it touches the head it pretty much holds itself in place.
 

DeCaff2007

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Ya know.... my FIL suggested the SAME THING.... adjusting valve lash during idle. Why haven't I done it? I'll be honest, all that oil slinging around makes too much of a mess. No, that's a lie - the real reason is because I'm half afraid to wrench on the engine while it's running. There, I said it. Make fun of me all you want, but I had to let the truth out there.

It was also suggested that I get a cheap set of factory valve covers from the yard, chop the top off of them, and bolt them on (much as that dude in the video has done). That will solve the oil mess problem.

Incompatible piston? If the lack of those two little notches (seen at 7 o'clock and 9 o'clock in the other pistons) are going to cause THAT much of a problem (which, I find hard to believe), I'll just find a full replacement set of pistons and have a machine shop press them on. Besides, I'd rather see 170 psi in all cylinders, if that's what's doing it. See, I'm learning.........

Last thing: I still have not replaced that oil pressure sender. I wish there was a modern, more reliable alternative to install.
 

PlayingWithTBI

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Anybody remember using these? I can still hear them clinking away:

Rocker Arm Oil Deflector Clips

Helps keep the oil in the motor and off the garage walls in case you
forget about the convertible valve covers and you blip the throttle
on pure muscle memory. Ask me how I know this. :)
Yeah me too, back in the 70s, on my 63 Chevy 283 with a solid lifter cam and high pressure oil pump. It squirted oil 10' away. :lol:

Edit: At least I thought it was a solid lifter cam but, that was a long time ago - CRS, ya know
 
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DeCaff2007

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So, I did some quick research on "better" pistons. LOVE these:


I should have done this from the beginning. Do I want to tear the whole engine back apart? Not in the slightest.

But, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to also have the intake manifold thread bores on the heads fixed, as well.
 

Schurkey

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So, I did some quick research on "better" pistons. LOVE these:

Nice piston, fairly inexpensive. Full compression height (good) but sabotaged with a 1950s ring pack (bad). Pretty-much nothing you can do to fix the old-fashioned ring grooves.

Not the only fish in that sea, though. Consider
www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-h597dcp30

About the same price, also has coated skirts. PROBABLY MACHINED FROM THE SAME CASTING AS THE PISTONS YOU LISTED. This part number happens to be for .030-over, other sizes available.

Pretty good ring pack (good) but sabotaged with a .010-short compression height. The compression height can be made-up with a thin head gasket, or by decking the block.

These are the replacement pistons for the 90--92 TBI Caprice engine.





Realistically, you need to figure out why the engine doesn't run right, instead of tearing it apart and flinging new pistons on the rods.

The engine-doesn't-run-right symptoms you're listing are NOT from incorrect pistons.

Don't "chop the top off" of Treasure Yard valve covers. Cut a strip (just wide enough to cram the 5/8 socket into) down the middle, directly above the rocker adjusting nuts. Even better would be to hole-saw 8 openings just big enough to poke a socket through. The less material you remove from the covers, the more oil they keep from decorating your engine compartment.

WHICH oil pressure sender are you having trouble with? The fist-sized canister by the oil filter, or the 3-wire job next to the distributor? I thought you got rid of the fist-sized "green stripe" sending unit in favor of the 3-wire one by the distributor...and they're reasonably reliable.
 
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L31MaxExpress

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I would try a valve adjustment before I lost sleep over pistons myself. I have seen stock engines further apart in compression numbers than this after some miles evened out with a good valve adjustment. I re-adjusted the valves after break-in even on my Goodwrench crate engines back in the day.
 

DeCaff2007

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Realistically, you need to figure out why the engine doesn't run right, instead of tearing it apart and flinging new pistons on the rods.

Yes, I agree. I was just throwing ideas out there.

The engine-doesn't-run-right symptoms you're listing are NOT from incorrect pistons.

Ok - what then? If it's miss-adjusted valves, then HOW did it run so beautifully during break in? Although, I am going to try the method shown in the aforementioned video. It's going to take me some time, but it'll get done.


WHICH oil pressure sender are you having trouble with?

The one behind the distributor. If they're so reliable, then why is my oil pressure crashing at idle, but normal when given just a tad bit of pedal?
 

Schurkey

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Ok - what then? If it's miss-adjusted valves, then HOW did it run so beautifully during break in? Although, I am going to try the method shown in the aforementioned video. It's going to take me some time, but it'll get done.
"I" would connect a scan tool and see what the computer thinks, and what info the computer is being supplied with. Verify ALL the sensors, check all the computer outputs, note the fuel trims, too.

What is the fuel pressure under load?

During break-in, the engine isn't under load and therefore requires very little fuel to run "beautifully". Out in the real world, a much larger volume of gasoline is needed. A weak fuel pump or partially-plugged filter can supply the engine at idle or fast-idle, and not when driving down the road.

The one behind the distributor. If they're so reliable, then why is my oil pressure crashing at idle, but normal when given just a tad bit of pedal?
Wild Guess: Crappy oil pressure at hot idle, fairly normal with RPM could be a weak oil pump, but more likely it's bearing clearances/bearing wear/journal problems, maybe wickedly thin oil, as if diluted by excessive gasoline. But thin oil might tend to have low oil pressure all the time.

The oil pressure sending unit does not know what engine RPM is. It reports on the pressure actually present at the moment. Connect a "known-good" oil pressure gauge either in that same pressure port, or one of the others. Find out what the real oil pressure is.

I'm concerned that your existing sending unit/wire harness/instrument cluster gauge is actually accurate.
 

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