Conventional vs Synthetic Oil Debate

[Schurkey]

to open up a bit of controversy. In the past I have read that the only two real synthetic oils are Amsoil and Mobil 1. All the other companies sued to have their super refined oils considered synthetic. They won. So, I only use Mobil 1

Far as I know, Mobil 1 is the same as the others, now. It's severely-treated petroleum oil (Group III) sold to us as if it were true synthetic. If you buy "Mobil 1" in Europe, you get genuine synthetic, because they don't put up with corporate bullshit the way our Congress (best politicians Corporate money can buy) does.

I bet the lower grades of Amsoil are also petroleum-based, although I've never asked. Their "Signature" line should be genuine synthetic (Group IV).

More info on Group IV oil:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/list-of-group-4-synthetic-oils.175149/

 

[victor II]

I swap Mobil1 into everything including a flat tappet cammed rod I drive (15/50 for the zinc). Never had a leak following the swap. I like the longer oil/filter change intervals, oil stays cleaner and it extends rotating assembly life by a lot in my experience.

 

[1989GMCSIERRA]

Project Farm has other videos where he does oil shootouts. I have not seen this lawsuit so it could also be poppycock but regardless, the way Valvoline performs as well as Rotella is up there based on his testing. How things perform during testing is what matters to me. I personally like that wear scar test he does as well as the heat resistance test and cold flow properties. So oils may all keep stuff clean, but what sells me is how well they protect against wear.

truthfully 396,000 miles with supertech 10-30 and super tech oil filters....I think I got my money worth out of it. Regardless of the oil I used. All my other vehicles all have 160,000 miles or more with one exception and I’m doing 35,000 miles a year on that so it won’t be long as it’s at 90,000 already.

Sure there are oils that protect more but truthfully all the tests are just that. Tests. If the engine is ran dry I don’t care if you use oil distilled from Jesus’s tears that were collected while he was on the cross it’s not gonna save the engine bearings. It’s gonna need a replacement or rebuild. So yes you can use that “better” oil and get a extra 10 or 20,000 out of it.

I remember a long time ago Dateline and consumer reports did a oil test on NYC taxi cabs. Basically all that’s needed is the oil to have the correct oil petroleum rat g symbol and to be changed at regular intervals. That’s it. The rest of the additives is all just designed to pull money out of your pocket just like the 3,000 mile oil change myth. Btw Jiffy lube came up with that “needed service interval” so it’s sort of putting the Fox in charge of the hen house
https://apnews.com/article/afd94f38faf468f8c32c30a44589f62c

 

[Erik the Awful]

The Dateline/CR test was invalid for most drivers. The cabs were run nearly all day, all the time. They almost never cooled down. Most vehicles get a fair number of short trips where the engine doesn't get fully warmed up, which causes the oil to break down faster. That said, the 3000 mile oil change is definitely a hoax, unless you're using the cheapest oil on the shelf. Change your oil every 5000 miles and use a decent quality oil and filter.

 

[DerekTheGreat]

..So yes you can use that “better” oil and get a extra 10 or 20,000 out of it...

...Btw Jiffy lube came up with that “needed service interval” so it’s sort of putting the Fox in charge of the hen house
https://apnews.com/article/afd94f38faf468f8c32c30a44589f62c

What Erik said about the Dateline thing.

Jiffy lube? Really? LoL.. They were founded in something like 1972 or '71. My 1969 Plymouth had service intervals listed right in the owner's manual so uh, not trying be or sound like an ass but you might want to check your "facts" before you endorse them as such.

 

[Pinger]

The Dateline/CR test was invalid for most drivers. The cabs were run nearly all day, all the time. They almost never cooled down. Most vehicles get a fair number of short trips where the engine doesn't get fully warmed up, which causes the oil to break down faster. That said, the 3000 mile oil change is definitely a hoax, unless you're using the cheapest oil on the shelf. Change your oil every 5000 miles and use a decent quality oil and filter.

The 3000 mile drain interval - does that possibly date back to a time when 'fuel cooling' was routinely employed? Ie, when radiators were made expensively (soldered brass and copper) a reduction in cooling capacity there was compensated for by jugging in gasoline to do the cooling. I seem to recall reading that many USA cars (of the 1960s) had cooling systems under specified by some 33% (to save on build cost). Excess fueling to compensate will surely result in fuel in the oil and consequent dilution. If not getting long trips to flash it off, a short drain interval would have been prudent.

We are a long way from that now. The main reason to change oil now isn't that the oil is bad (or how else could it be considered good enough to be re-cycled?) but that the additive packages (detergent, anti-wear, anti-oxidant, anti-foam, tackifiers, etc) have depleted. The better the base oil, the less strain it puts on it's additive packages and thus extended drain intervals become possible.

 

[Erik the Awful]

I'm a believer that "additive packages" are mostly bunkum. The quality of the underlying product comes first, and additive packages are often used as an excuse to pawn off poor quality product with some sprinkles on top. That said, how many of us have actually seen the "additive package" separate from the product?

 

[Pinger]

When oil goes black - that's a visible sign of part of the additive package working. The detergent element holding dirt in suspension until it is removed at the next change. Oil has no natural detergency.
A better quality oil will minimise oxidation hence less dirt - but anti-oxidants help with that too. Another element of the additive package....

 

[PlayingWithTBI]

how many of us have actually seen the "additive package" separate from the product?

We used to use additive packages (mostly contained zinc) in our hydraulic systems since they were 2,000+ gallons. Some of our systems used AW100 and others used AW68 (Anti-Wear with higher zinc). With "kidney loop" filtration running 24/7 and proper (monthly) testing we could keep the same oil for years until the TAN (Total Acid Number) got too high. No amount of filtration can reduce that. But, when we're talking 5 - 8 quarts of oil, I'll just change it periodically. With 10W-40 or 0W-40 Mobil1 that's around 7500 miles or 1 year for me.

 

[1989GMCSIERRA]

What Erik said about the Dateline thing.

Jiffy lube? Really? LoL.. They were founded in something like 1972 or '71. My 1969 Plymouth had service intervals listed right in the owner's manual so uh, not trying be or sound like an ass but you might want to check your "facts" before you endorse them as such.

so that was the only recommended interval? Or did it have the typical two intervals based on your driving style. Most people erroneously believe that doing ANY of the driving that falls under the 3,000 mile recommended intervals means they have to do 3,000 mile changes. And oil change, dealer or repair shops aren’t gonna say otherwise. It’s easy money for them. .

every vehicle I bought since 8 started driving had two recommended intervals 3,000 and I think 7500. Funny how 3,000 was the “recommended” intervals by everyone around. I stopped buying into that a few years after I started doing my own changes when I was young. I literally had people foaming at the mouth because I did 5,000 mile oil changes. . The oil was honey colored by 3,000. Oil analysis was a pipe dream. 5000 (starting to do 7500 with synthetic) Mile oil changes has been normal to me for a long time. I have reached 200,000-400,000 miles out of engines with no oil related issues. And quite a few were carbureted engines.

at one time the oils simply weren’t that good and cars were carbureted and probably needed more frequent oil changes but I’m still betting 3,000 miles was still too early.

my wife’s cars have those oil mi dear functions. Dealers and service shops STILL recommend 3,000 mile changes. Even though her car uses synthetic. Her style of driving recommended intervals is 7500 miles.

ps. I wasn’t born in 1969 so I can’t tell you anything about your intervals.