99 L29 454 build

[Scottm]

Yes, Bex, my map is working correctly. There was a glitch in the efi live software that had the map reading in kpa and everything else in standard.

Super, it is logging knock and there isn't a trace.

That is kind of where I left off with BB, that they will advance timing and we will watch for knock. I know it will be fine because I have been building chevy engines since 1980 and without exception, they get 34-36 degrees at wot. You might be able to tell from the first few pages of this thread that this isn't my first build. But why do I have to teach professional tuners this? I even sent them this pic from MSD, showing the out-of-the-box advance curve of their billet chevy v8 distributor! They said that would cause instant destruction. Pffft..

 

[Supercharged111]

Whenever I pry open my wallet and tune the plow truck I could tell you how much timing it wants. I flat out don't remember what the dually wanted back when it was NA.

 

[BeXtreme]

Yes, Bex, my map is working correctly. There was a glitch in the efi live software that had the map reading in kpa and everything else in standard.

Super, it is logging knock and there isn't a trace.

That is kind of where I left off with BB, that they will advance timing and we will watch for knock. I know it will be fine because I have been building chevy engines since 1980 and without exception, they get 34-36 degrees at wot. You might be able to tell from the first few pages of this thread that this isn't my first build. But why do I have to teach professional tuners this? I even sent them this pic from MSD, showing the out-of-the-box advance curve of their billet chevy v8 distributor! They said that would cause instant destruction. Pffft..

Based on the way your data logging looks... I don't know that I would call the person doing that tune "professional". Bumping the timing up globally just might cause "instant destruction" with the way the rest of that tune looks... but most likely not. It's also worth noting that the base timing table won't necessarily cause the actual timing being applied to increase. There are other adder tables that affect timing and a low base timing table could still provide the proper WOT timing if done right. As long as your knock retard tables and HI/LO octane tables are done right and you have both functioning knock sensors installed.. you should be totally fine to bump up the tables though. They should be leaving the Lo octane table alone and bumping up the high octane table though. If it reads too many knock events it will then kick down into the lo octane table and then you know you went to far in the Hi octane table.

 

[Supercharged111]

Based on the way your data logging looks... I don't know that I would call the person doing that tune "professional". Bumping the timing up globally just might cause "instant destruction" with the way the rest of that tune looks... but most likely not. It's also worth noting that the base timing table won't necessarily cause the actual timing being applied to increase. There are other adder tables that affect timing and a low base timing table could still provide the proper WOT timing if done right. As long as your knock retard tables and HI/LO octane tables are done right and you have both functioning knock sensors installed.. you should be totally fine to bump up the tables though. They should be leaving the Lo octane table alone and bumping up the high octane table though. If it reads too many knock events it will then kick down into the lo octane table and then you know you went to far in the Hi octane table.

A 411 will choose a value between the 2 tables, it won't simply default to the low octane table. I like to do global bumps until I begin to see traces of knock, then I'll start to reshape it by adding more to the low end and blending that to the rest. Helps response locked in OD big-time.

 

[BeXtreme]

A 411 will choose a value between the 2 tables, it won't simply default to the low octane table. I like to do global bumps until I begin to see traces of knock, then I'll start to reshape it by adding more to the low end and blending that to the rest. Helps response locked in OD big-time.

Hmm... I've only been messing with the Gen IV stuff. Gen IV will never choose a value BETWEEN two tables. It has parameters that you can adjust to change what triggers the change and how quickly, but it will only ever run off values from one or the other table. This isn't an 0411 is it? I thought he switched back to the black box, which is why he is going through black bear. If it is 0411 swapped, I would stop messing with black bear at this point and start tuning with your own stuff. You can tune an 0411 with a $60 or less tool and free software.

 

[Scottm]

It is an 0411. BB did say something about the fuel trims, thinking either fuel pressure is low or they are not really 36lb injectors. I checked fp a couple days ago, and it was 58 psi key on-engine off, and 50 idling.

What is going wrong with the 02's??

 

[Supercharged111]

Hmm... I've only been messing with the Gen IV stuff. Gen IV will never choose a value BETWEEN two tables. It has parameters that you can adjust to change what triggers the change and how quickly, but it will only ever run off values from one or the other table. This isn't an 0411 is it? I thought he switched back to the black box, which is why he is going through black bear. If it is 0411 swapped, I would stop messing with black bear at this point and start tuning with your own stuff. You can tune an 0411 with a $60 or less tool and free software.

I was speaking of the 0411, I don't recall the black box having 2 different timing maps? The BB does have 2 different VE maps.

It is an 0411. BB did say something about the fuel trims, thinking either fuel pressure is low or they are not really 36lb injectors. I checked fp a couple days ago, and it was 58 psi key on-engine off, and 50 idling.

What is going wrong with the 02's??

If the O2s are switching, then there'd be nothing wrong with them. Which 36# injectors are you running? If they're L67 injectors they flow 42# at the 4 bar your truck runs. The entire tune starts with the injector flow constant. Get that wrong and the whole tune is screwed.

 

[BeXtreme]

I was speaking of the 0411, I don't recall the black box having 2 different timing maps? The BB does have 2 different VE maps.

Two different VE maps? How would that even work? VE is a mechanical function of the engine... it doesn't have anything to do with the fuel type.

If the O2s are switching, then there'd be nothing wrong with them. Which 36# injectors are you running? If they're L67 injectors they flow 42# at the 4 bar your truck runs. The entire tune starts with the injector flow constant. Get that wrong and the whole tune is screwed.

Looking at his posted logs in the previous page.. I don't see any switching of the O2 sensors. In fact, they show values on the side, but I don't see them being graphed at all. Maybe they are totally fine, but it doesn't look like it to me.

they are not really 36lb injectors.

This could be the core of all of your problems here. What injectors are they? Where did you get the injector data that you are using in the tune? It can be tricky to get correct injector data for some of the bosch injectors that were used on 3 bar systems originally.

 

[Supercharged111]

Two different VE maps? How would that even work? VE is a mechanical function of the engine... it doesn't have anything to do with the fuel type.


Looking at his posted logs in the previous page.. I don't see any switching of the O2 sensors. In fact, they show values on the side, but I don't see them being graphed at all. Maybe they are totally fine, but it doesn't look like it to me.


This could be the core of all of your problems here. What injectors are they? Where did you get the injector data that you are using in the tune? It can be tricky to get correct injector data for some of the bosch injectors that were used on 3 bar systems originally.

The primary VE map is what's typically used, the backup has lower resolution and is only used when the MAF takes a dump.

 

[Scottm]

They are Bosch from 5-0 and they came with data. I sent the sheets to BB the first time it went up. I will put up pics of the sheets later tonight.